How does anyone retain heat in an Edwardian House?

benson1980

thedrumdoctor said:

BUFF said:

what make/model of boiler do you have?

Its a 2004 Glow Worm Micron 100FF (stone-age by today's standards probably).

do you have a programmer & room stat(s) in addition to your TRVs?

There's a versatile enough programmer for the boiler, but no room thermostat control.

How much gas do you use annually?

From Dec 2021-Dec 2022 I have used 2676 units of gas.

Our timer runs from about 6am to 8pm in week day mornings and 4:30pm to 9:30pm.

On weekends it's roughly the same, except it comes on later in the mornings and a bit later in the evenings.

When the prices went through the roof I knocked off an hour per day which did reduce the consumption a little bit, but my gas bill for Dec 2022 was just under £434.

Dec 22 was colder than Dec 21. If I'm reading your first post correctly you live in a 6 bed house, which is going to cost some to heat. Reading some posts on energy forums could make you think that most of the population are living in passivhauses and you're the only one using 3-4000 kwH per month in winter, but the reality is they are probably much smaller houses, or I suspect they are very cold. I compare our usage with friends who are in new builds (EPC B.) and TBH even they are using a fair bit to keep their houses warm and it does make me wonder how people are achieving these figures. 

Not saying don't aspire to improve thermal efficiency but by the same token your usage doesn't sound too far away from the norm for what sounds like a big house.

thedrumdoctor

BUFF said:

photo of your TRVs?

Assuming that it isn't already a condensing boiler then I wouldn't be surprised if a modern condensing boiler & controls, properly set up & run knocked off 25+% or more of your gas consumption for heating. Even more if your current boiler has a permanent pilot and/or you are willing to make behavioural changes.

This is music to my ears and my current boiler isn't condensing. I'm missing out on wasted energy, for sure on that score.

Here's some quick photos of the TRV types we have:

macman

Assuming a metric meter, you are burning 30,500kWh of gas p.a., so about a £3,050 spend, excluding the s/c. If a new boiler saves you 20%, that's a payback of £600 p.a.  
This assumes that gas prices remain stable. On that basis, a new boiler could pay for itself in little more than 4 years. I'd say that's a no-brainer, even more so given that a boiler of that vintage is likely to require some expenditure anyway to keep it in service for a few more years.
This is a vastly more cost-effective way of cutting your energy usage than insulating non-cavity walls.

BUFF

thedrumdoctor said:

BUFF said:

photo of your TRVs?

Assuming that it isn't already a condensing boiler then I wouldn't be surprised if a modern condensing boiler & controls, properly set up & run knocked off 25+% or more of your gas consumption for heating. Even more if your current boiler has a permanent pilot and/or you are willing to make behavioural changes.

This is music to my ears and my current boiler isn't condensing. I'm missing out on wasted energy, for sure on that score.

Here's some quick photos of the TRV types we have:

At least 2 of those TRVs if not all 3 in the photos are Pegler. They are typically factory calibrated:

 0 =off ★=7C 1=11-13C 2=15-17C 3=19-21C 4=23-25C 5=27-29C

If you have a TRV on the radiator in the hall with your room stat. you want that set to max (so as not to interfere with the room stat's operation). The others you can adjust according to your individua room heating requirements & the above scale.

FreeBear

macman said:

Assuming a metric meter, you are burning 30,500kWh of gas p.a., so about a £3,050 spend, excluding the s/c. If a new boiler saves you 20%, that's a payback of £600 p.a.  
This assumes that gas prices remain stable. On that basis, a new boiler could pay for itself in little more than 4 years. I'd say that's a no-brainer, even more so given that a boiler of that vintage is likely to require some expenditure anyway to keep it in service for a few more years.
This is a vastly more cost-effective way of cutting your energy usage than insulating non-cavity walls.

Insulating walls brings other advantages such as reduced condensation and smooth walls ready for decorating. It also reduces the amount of energy consumed, so combined with a new boiler, perhaps doubling the potential saving. Also improves the EPC rating which could become an important factor when selling the property.

macman

FreeBear said:

macman said:

Assuming a metric meter, you are burning 30,500kWh of gas p.a., so about a £3,050 spend, excluding the s/c. If a new boiler saves you 20%, that's a payback of £600 p.a.  
This assumes that gas prices remain stable. On that basis, a new boiler could pay for itself in little more than 4 years. I'd say that's a no-brainer, even more so given that a boiler of that vintage is likely to require some expenditure anyway to keep it in service for a few more years.
This is a vastly more cost-effective way of cutting your energy usage than insulating non-cavity walls.

Insulating walls brings other advantages such as reduced condensation and smooth walls ready for decorating. It also reduces the amount of energy consumed, so combined with a new boiler, perhaps doubling the potential saving. Also improves the EPC rating which could become an important factor when selling the property.

Everything you say is correct, but in term of 'bang for your buck', the boiler should come first. The cost of insulating the walls is going to be many times the cost of a new boiler.

thedrumdoctor

macman said:

2676 units of gas: but which units: 100's cu ft or cu m? Metric or imperial meter? We really need your annual gas usage in kWh, not meter units, it's on your annual statement.
Rerouting the gas supply as you describe is relatively trivial, we had the same solution to fit an uprated combi.

The meters are metric as they were replaced in 2021. 

Now....we are on paperless billing with Utility Warehouse and there doesn't appear to be an annual statement in our list of downloads. However, there is this: 

thedrumdoctor

BUFF said:

I am going to take that as cu m which is ~30,000kWh per year.

Yes, it’s a metric gas meter.

A new condensing boiler & load/weather compensating controls will make a significant improvement/saving in usage.

I didn’t know such things existed on boilers!

I would stick with a hw tank (the next replacement cycle is likely to be a heat pump & thus require stored hot water) but if you can afford it a switch to  a modern unvented hw tank  (unless that has already been done). A combi also typically requires more gas supply than a conventional/system boiler.

We have a sealed HW tank in the system which is also fitted with an immersion heater. We didn’t want to be without hot water when the boiler inevitably broke down. I didn’t realise it would be an asset for a future heat pump install.

thedrumdoctor

FreeBear said:

Don't suppose you had any insulation put in under the floorboards when they were replaced ? It would have been an ideal opportunity, and if Buildling Control had been involved, they may well have insisted on it.

No, it was a damp-proof course exercise so no building control involved. We were basically throwing everything at preventing future wet-rot and rising damp - and it’s actually worked.

I have to say, the idea of internal or external wall insulation seems very, very disruptive. I’d sooner sell up and move to an ultra-modern build - which is actually an option for us - though not really ideal.

macman

thedrumdoctor said:

macman said:

2676 units of gas: but which units: 100's cu ft or cu m? Metric or imperial meter? We really need your annual gas usage in kWh, not meter units, it's on your annual statement.
Rerouting the gas supply as you describe is relatively trivial, we had the same solution to fit an uprated combi.

The meters are metric as they were replaced in 2021. 

Now....we are on paperless billing with Utility Warehouse and there doesn't appear to be an annual statement in our list of downloads. However, there is this: 

Fine. so you were using 30,500kWh, but it seems you have cut your usage and now they estimate 25,000kWh. Better, but still twice the UK average.