How to not be auto enrolled into pensions?

Silvertabby

Emmia said:

With auto enrollment being required, is there the possibility that the state pension might be all but abolished, or reduced to a minimum level for most people? I think people who don't take up pensions that are offered are totally bonkers, and gambling with their future financial security.

Personally, I opened my first pension at 18, and opted into workplace pensions as soon as I could. I've no particular plans to retire early, but never say never - the option is there. I do however plan to enjoy my retirement.

The new State pension is set at a couple of £s over the means test limit.  Once we are past the (lengthy) transitional period, and all new pensioners get the full nsp, then there will be no means tested benefits such as Pension Credit (PC) or all the additional benefits that eligibity for PC opens the door to.

Want more than £185.15 a week to live on in retirement?  Then you need to save for your extras.

artyboy

AnnoyedEnergyUser said:

Folks seem very combative with people who take an opposing view.

You would think that pension schemes had never failed, that governments are run incredibly well and don't change the rules whilst you are in schemes and its not guaranteed you will live to enjoy the money.

With that in mind, surely paying off debts, clearing mortgages, having money behind you in case of events is also a sensible alternative wouldn't you say.

As the projection for my pot is at best 30,000 which I can't imagine it would buy that big a pay out. Surely me holding onto that money investing it as I see fit and ensuring I have no debt is sensible enough thank you.

There's nothing wrong with an opposing view, but you seem determined to ignore the overwhelming positive arguments for paying into a pension. 

Yes schemes fail (rarely) but those are the old Final Salary type, they have the backup of the PPF, and in any case they are NOT what you are being enrolled into. No one is going to 'do a Maxwell' and run off with your money! 

And yes, rules change, for my own part, I'm a few days the wrong side of the rule change that would have allowed me to access my pension at 55 (will have to wait till 57, boo hoo).

Yes, debts - but rather than taking this nuclear option, perhaps pop over to the Debt Free Wannabe board for more considered pointers on managing that...

Anyway... if 'governments being badly run' is really part of your argument then we might as well all give up now because do you think that's likely to change...?

You know you are turning down free money, you can see that not planning for the longer term comes back to bite you, but if you really want to persist with this path, then good luck but don't come crying to the state when the reality of living on a state pension finally sinks in...

p00hsticks

Silvertabby said:

Emmia said:

With auto enrollment being required, is there the possibility that the state pension might be all but abolished, or reduced to a minimum level for most people? I think people who don't take up pensions that are offered are totally bonkers, and gambling with their future financial security.

Personally, I opened my first pension at 18, and opted into workplace pensions as soon as I could. I've no particular plans to retire early, but never say never - the option is there. I do however plan to enjoy my retirement.

 Once we are past the (lengthy) transitional period, and all new pensioners get the full nsp, then there will be no means tested benefits such as Pension Credit (PC) or all the additional benefits that eligibity for PC opens the door to.

Even after the transitional period, there are always likely to be people who aren't entitled to the full nsp because they have less than 35 years NI credits. So there is always going to be a need for some form of benefit support for the elderly.

MallyGirl

AnnoyedEnergyUser said:

Folks seem very combative with people who take an opposing view.

You would think that pension schemes had never failed, that governments are run incredibly well and don't change the rules whilst you are in schemes and its not guaranteed you will live to enjoy the money.

With that in mind, surely paying off debts, clearing mortgages, having money behind you in case of events is also a sensible alternative wouldn't you say.

As the projection for my pot is at best 30,000 which I can't imagine it would buy that big a pay out. Surely me holding onto that money investing it as I see fit and ensuring I have no debt is sensible enough thank you.

The comment in bold suggests that you are thinking about an annuity - this is unlikely to be what you end up doing.

If investing for yourself outside of a pension you will need to be getting pretty significant performance to make up for the lack of tax relief that equivalent pension contributions would have gained. You can get tax relief (20%) even if you were a low earner and didn't pay any tax.

dunstonh

With auto enrollment being required, is there the possibility that the state pension might be all but abolished, or reduced to a minimum level for most people?

Yes there is.  If you look at other European countries, their state pensions are often similar to auto-enrolment except they are run by the state.

Silvertabby

dunstonh said:

With auto enrollment being required, is there the possibility that the state pension might be all but abolished, or reduced to a minimum level for most people?

Yes there is.  If you look at other European countries, their state pensions are often similar to auto-enrolment except they are run by the state.

Of course, European employees and employers pay in way more than we do in just NI, hence the juicy Euro pensions that some UK pensioners are so envious about.

A fairer comparison between the current Euro pensions and the UK State pension would be Euro pensions against the UK State pension PLUS all the private/occupational/AE pensions that the UK pensioner paid into/could have paid into/should have paid into.  

Marcon

artyboy said:

And yes, rules change, for my own part, I'm a few days the wrong side of the rule change that would have allowed me to access my pension at 55 (will have to wait till 57, boo hoo).

We are still awaiting details of the transitional provisions, which could avoid the 'cliff edge' approach. 

dunstonh

Silvertabby said:

dunstonh said:

With auto enrollment being required, is there the possibility that the state pension might be all but abolished, or reduced to a minimum level for most people?

Yes there is.  If you look at other European countries, their state pensions are often similar to auto-enrolment except they are run by the state.

Of course, European employees and employers pay in way more than we do in just NI, hence the juicy Euro pensions that some UK pensioners are so envious about.

A fairer comparison between the current Euro pensions and the UK State pension would be Euro pensions against the UK State pension PLUS all the private/occupational/AE pensions that the UK pensioner paid into/could have paid into/should have paid into.  

Indeed, I cannot imagine many in the UK being willing to stomach the contributions required in some of the European countries.    Yet those same people often moan about the UK, some will opt out of AE, and then say European pensions are better.