EV Charging Network

born_again

JKenH said:

Replying to last two posts.

If one is talking about adding chargers to existing petrol filling stations the operator may think one petrol pump might bring in 20x the turnover of a rapid charger so why bother with the extra expense of the civil engineering and electrical works?

Shell seem to be gearing up for EV charging at many of their stations. You can see the big green power distribution boxes being installed. 
So I would expect them to be installing the actual chargers as & when they get them.

@Herzlos

So us poor tax payers pick up the non profit making area's then.😒
If people want Government to take action then only one way. Public ownership of ALL chargers. Then at least the profits can be ploughed back into the infrastructure.

Herzlos

born_again said:

So us poor tax payers pick up the non profit making area's then.😒
If people want Government to take action then only one way. Public ownership of ALL chargers. Then at least the profits can be ploughed back into the infrastructure.

Unfortunately that's how it all works at the moment - privatization of the profits and public funding of the risks and costs.

I agree that we should have full public ownership of EV chargers, and all other essential utilities.

Martyn1981

born_again said:

Why do people think it is up to the government to install more chargers?
If there is demand then companies will install them & make money from them. Clearly at certain times there is more demand than supply. But at other times they are stood doing nothing. Only the same as fuel pumps, where you have to wait to fill up.
Yes fuel pumps are the same, but they have been here for years & do not require infrastructure upgrades costing well into 6 figures in many cases.

Because the move to BEV's is not being done with normal market forces and timing, it's being artificially accelerated as part of the global move to combat AGW. The same argument could have been used (and spoiler, was) against RE when it was more expensive than FF's and nuclear for generation.

The Gov offered subsidies for BEV's till recently, and discounts for having a home charger installed. These measures helped to stimulate the BEV market faster than it otherwise would have. Now we have attractive BiK rates to encourage businesses and staff to move to BEV's.

But for many, certainly not all, but many, the hold up and fear of BEV's comes down to charging, be it overnight, or rapid charging on longer trips. To stop that negative slowing down the shift to BEV's, the Gov needs to be involved and find ways to accelerate the rollout of an adequate charging infrastructure.

And before anyone says that they and their ICEV's aren't subsidised, note that the need to combat AGW is down to CO2 emissions, so support for cleaner, greener transport and technology is directly linked to FF consumption, and the cost of support simply better reflects the real costs of running an ICE, FF powerstation etc.

But, that doesn't make people who consume FF's bad, as that would be all of us, it's simply that we didn't have much of a choice, so now alternatives are being offered, but require support to accelerate the rollout.

Petriix

I seriously doubt that operating EV charge points could ever be a profit making venture, at least not without heavy subsidy as we see now (often indirectly). Leaving it to the market is, therefore, a dereliction of duty. 

What we commonly see is large pools of money being dished out for the construction/installation and no ongoing support for maintenance. Hence we see so many out of service chargers and minimal effort to repair them.

The transition to EVs isn't some joyous future utopian dream, it's an immediate necessity (as part of a wider transition) to preserve the habitability of the planet. It should, therefore, be very much the responsibility of the government. That's not to say that private business shouldn't be involved. In my opinion every business that profits from road use should be directly funding the transition. 

Herzlos

Once there are enough EV's on the road, not having chargers in business car parks will start to hurt footfall and they'll all rush to catch up. If you have an EV and Asda provides charging but Tesco doesn't, why would you want to go to Tesco?

But until we hit that critical mass I'm not sure it's going to provide much business incentive.

TooManyPoints

If you have an EV and Asda provides charging but Tesco doesn't, why would you want to go to Tesco?

Possibly because Tesco provides the products you want and ASDA doesn't? Seems a bit of a strange thing to have to do, to decide where you shop based on the ability to refuel your car whilst you're there. 

Herzlos

TooManyPoints said:

If you have an EV and Asda provides charging but Tesco doesn't, why would you want to go to Tesco?

Possibly because Tesco provides the products you want and ASDA doesn't? Seems a bit of a strange thing to have to do, to decide where you shop based on the ability to refuel your car whilst you're there. 

Yet all of the larger supermarkets near me also have petrol stations, so it must matter to some.

ComicGeek

Herzlos said:

TooManyPoints said:

If you have an EV and Asda provides charging but Tesco doesn't, why would you want to go to Tesco?

Possibly because Tesco provides the products you want and ASDA doesn't? Seems a bit of a strange thing to have to do, to decide where you shop based on the ability to refuel your car whilst you're there. 

Yet all of the larger supermarkets near me also have petrol stations, so it must matter to some.

But you have to travel from your home to fill up your ICE, so you might as well combine refueling with a shopping trip, particularly as the supermarkets are probably selling at the lowest price in the area. No one wants to travel just to get fuel - that's one of the reasons I changed to a EV as I didn't pass any petrol stations on my regular routes, I was sick of driving a 40 minute round trip to the petrol station every Sunday morning.

People with EVs and home charging aren't going to charge at supermarkets unless it's free or heavily subsidised. People with EVs but no home charging are going to have to charge wherever they can, so possibly charging may be a factor in choosing which supermarket - but unlikely to be sufficient from 1 hour of charging per week, so they will need plenty of other charging locations to move between. If they roll out 7 kW chargers to get a larger number in the car parks, then that might only add 18 miles/hr of charging in the winter - might only be enough to recover their journey to/from the supermarket.

JKenH

Belenus said:

Petriix said:

Meanwhile 12,000 miles in 2022 cost me £170.

Are service costs lower, similar or higher?

What are the costs of replacement batteries in the future?

What other differences are there?

10 Electric Cars That'll Bankrupt You Through Maintenance And Repairs

https://www.hotcars.com/electric-cars-bankrupt-you-maintenance-repairs/

I just came across this US article - note the click bait title. I will leave you to decide whether what it says is true or not. The Consumer Reports study it relates to dates back to 2020 but here is a link to an article quoting a November 2022 Consumer Reports study.

Electric vehicles are less reliable because of newer technologies, Consumer Reports finds

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/15/consumer-reports-new-technologies-make-evs-less-reliable.html

Many of the problems with EVs relate to software issues which in Tesla’s case are usually resolved with an OTA update. From what I have seen on forums the Tesla suspension issues are real and can prove expensive out of warranty. ICE cars also can have reliability problems.

Grumpy_chap

JKenH said:

10 Electric Cars That'll Bankrupt You Through Maintenance And Repairs

I had to stop reading that article very early on.
It starts with the assertion that the Tesla Model S is the most expensive EV to maintain and then "Typical problems include engine issues, ".  I kid you not.

I have visions of an owner of the getting older second hand EV taking the car for a service to the local independent only to be met with some massive sucking of breath through teeth and an explanation it was a miracle the car kept going as long as it had, going to need a whole new engine guv'nor.  Once they are into the job, the poor customer will be met with a sequence of add-ons as the garage keep finding more parts that were simply not up to the job.  Still, the retro-conversion will be good for another 100k miles or so now, don't you worry.