Council tax - single occupier discount, interview under caution

dil1976

Out of curiosity, why didn't you set up an account in your name with the energy supplier? Surely you would be paying more for the energy as you will be billed for business use between occupancies?

poppy12345

michael8626 said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Muttleythefrog said:

michael8626 said:

A quick update, the revenue organisation who act for the local councils in my area and myself are continuing to exchange pleasantries and waste further tax payer money. 

They have accessed the energy accounts for the property in question. I presume they have the relevant authority to do this, I’m not sure how I would check?

Interestingly, the accounts are in the name of ‘the occupier’ and the local authority seem to have accepted the usage and the information on the bills relate to myself, as they do, and I pay them. 

Even though they still will not accept I live in the property for three or four days a week? 

So they appear happy to use an energy bill that is not in my name, but says ‘the occupier’ but deem me not to be the occupier? 

From a legal standpoint, surely they either accept me to be the occupier or this information must be inadmissible? 

Hmmm think you might be scratching around to justify your continued approach which appears backed by your solicitor who I would default to the advice of. I imagine they will have powers to acquire such information in a fraud investigation. Occupier is a generic term I would say to refer to where the occupant (or person responsible for the premises) is not known - it actually suggests to me you're not living there as if you were I would have expected the energy account to be updated with your details that you supplied them on moving in... did you supply them with your details after the last tenant left? 

Exactly this - energy bills are addressed to 'The Occupier' when there is no name on the energy account.  When people move in they usually set up their own account with the supplier, then the bills are addressed by name. 

As the landlord you are automatically responsible for any bills in between tenants, whether you live there or not.  The fact you haven't set up an energy account in your name would seem to imply you are not living there, simply responsible for the bills between tenants as the landlord - as would be usual for an unoccupied rental house.

Many companies will use the term ‘the legal owner’ as that is more reflective of the situation. 

In the past 20 years of renting and several house moves within that time, i've never know an energy company use the term "legal owner." It's usually "the occupier"

Muttleythefrog

michael8626 said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Muttleythefrog said:

michael8626 said:

A quick update, the revenue organisation who act for the local councils in my area and myself are continuing to exchange pleasantries and waste further tax payer money. 

They have accessed the energy accounts for the property in question. I presume they have the relevant authority to do this, I’m not sure how I would check?

Interestingly, the accounts are in the name of ‘the occupier’ and the local authority seem to have accepted the usage and the information on the bills relate to myself, as they do, and I pay them. 

Even though they still will not accept I live in the property for three or four days a week? 

So they appear happy to use an energy bill that is not in my name, but says ‘the occupier’ but deem me not to be the occupier? 

From a legal standpoint, surely they either accept me to be the occupier or this information must be inadmissible? 

Hmmm think you might be scratching around to justify your continued approach which appears backed by your solicitor who I would default to the advice of. I imagine they will have powers to acquire such information in a fraud investigation. Occupier is a generic term I would say to refer to where the occupant (or person responsible for the premises) is not known - it actually suggests to me you're not living there as if you were I would have expected the energy account to be updated with your details that you supplied them on moving in... did you supply them with your details after the last tenant left? 

Exactly this - energy bills are addressed to 'The Occupier' when there is no name on the energy account.  When people move in they usually set up their own account with the supplier, then the bills are addressed by name. 

As the landlord you are automatically responsible for any bills in between tenants, whether you live there or not.  The fact you haven't set up an energy account in your name would seem to imply you are not living there, simply responsible for the bills between tenants as the landlord - as would be usual for an unoccupied rental house.

Many companies will use the term ‘the legal owner’ as that is more reflective of the situation. 

I've rarely seen that term used (legal owner) and of course it wouldn't be appropriate for them to use for power account as the property owner may not be responsible for paying and indeed normally for the property it is a tenant right? I've seen the term (The) Occupier standardly used and particularly when it comes to household billing with unknown person responsible for paying. 

When I say scratching around... what I'm trying to say is I'm getting the impression that rather than being open and seeking resolution (as you presented) you seem to want to be hung up on minor points which do not help your case in order to pursue an argument that seems a distraction in your life. If they are looking to assert for their classification purposes where you actually live then they may be looking to circumstantial evidence like the billing... and I imagine the inference from a bill referencing Occupier is that they could argue you never told the power company you moved in.... ergo, it is reasonable for them to think you never did. (Remember this is about balance of evidence not necessarily truth.. if it looks like a dog, has 4 legs and barks at cats it could actually be a pantomime horse but more likely it is a dog).

Takes me back to a previous point on electronic administration and data matching.. increasingly our lives and authenticity will be verified by what data says not what we say and that you are not turning up to interview sort of elevates the importance probably of that point...at interview I would argue that it didn't seem worth it to get the account put into your name when within a year you expected it to be in another's (I would argue similarly for other evidence they may present like bank statements but I would have a problem where legally required to give address change such as say driving licence if relevant)... but I can only hesitate (having worked with many lawyers) in saying you should revert to your legal adviser in how you proceed with this. I suspect if you enquire with them on the point of 'occupier' they'll be of a mind as people here that it is standard for a utility company to use where they lack the named person responsible for paying the bill... and that it is not helpful to any argument 'I live there'. Ultimately where people live often isn't black and white (as in your case)... not so long ago I was doing up my home to sell but it was becoming evident I was too unwell to live there and do renovation/redecoration so I was spending time at my parents' home.. but actually I was spending most nights living outdoors as I was finding it very difficult to be within any property due to mental illness... what my 'official address' should have been through those times I have not a clue but I doubt the DWP would have accepted map coordinates of the forest I was sleeping in. It's a bit more straightforward now and I hope you can get resolution to this and put it behind you soon along with getting property back in rental.

Spoonie_Turtle

dil1976 said:

Out of curiosity, why didn't you set up an account in your name with the energy supplier? Surely you would be paying more for the energy as you will be billed for business use between occupancies?

No, as a presumably residential house the supply will be domestic.  

[You might be thinking of the era when the standard variable tariff was usually more expensive than a fix, which is currently not the case at all.]

born_again

From viewing this as a 3rd party & no offence to anyone.

OP seems to be making a big rod for their own back in the way this is being handled. Given it seems from what they have said, there was nothing to hide. So not sure why they did not attend meeting in 1st place, which could have resolved the issue there & then. 

But their actions, is clearly making the council feel the OP is hiding something.  Making the council have to do a lot of work that would not have been required. So they will keep digging till they find what they want.

Add in clearly the solicitor is rubbing their hands on the £££ they will be making here as well.🤷‍♀️