Council tax - single occupier discount, interview under caution

michael8626

p00hsticks said:

My friend is paying full council tax on the other property.

Which I suspect, perhaps bizarrely, may not be helping your case, as it would appear to suggest that in your friends opinion you are also living there and so they are not eligible for the single person discount.

Ironically the council suggested this in an email six months ago. 

They are happy for two properties to reduce their liability by 25% but not for one property? 

It’s tax payers money they are playing with, they just read from the script and don’t live in the real world, will never compromise for fear of setting a precedent. 

Alice_Holt

This may be useful for anyone coming to this thread who is facing an interview under caution:
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/sites/default/files/how_to_interview_under_caution-2017(website).pdf

Muttleythefrog

michael8626 said:

p00hsticks said:

My friend is paying full council tax on the other property.

Which I suspect, perhaps bizarrely, may not be helping your case, as it would appear to suggest that in your friends opinion you are also living there and so they are not eligible for the single person discount.

Ironically the council suggested this in an email six months ago. 

They are happy for two properties to reduce their liability by 25% but not for one property? 

It’s tax payers money they are playing with, they just read from the script and don’t live in the real world, will never compromise for fear of setting a precedent. 

You may have a point.. but they need to apply their own council tax rules. I faced a situation where I wanted to stop getting single person discount (complicated explanation) when living singly but they would not budge. They bone headedly would not appreciate my particular circumstances and I wonder if your council is acting similarly and as a result is triggering a technical fraud investigation when clearly there is no attempt to commit fraud.

As you say.. it's not unusual to be registered to vote one place and yet reside elsewhere... students are often a classic example. But I fear as more and more data matching goes on and we increasingly live in an electronic data driven environment then having orderly and logical administration is going to become increasingly important. Frustratingly I have issues with financial institutions (and others) changing my wife's name whenever they feel like it and this causes us issues (credit reference agencies suggest she has used multiple names in the UK when she damn well has not). Data matching issues are likely a factor in this investigation.

Anyway you've taken legal advice and won't attend. Be helpful if you could update the thread with any major developments in the case as and when. Good luck with re-renting.

michael8626

A quick update, the revenue organisation who act for the local councils in my area and myself are continuing to exchange pleasantries and waste further tax payer money. 

They have accessed the energy accounts for the property in question. I presume they have the relevant authority to do this, I’m not sure how I would check?

Interestingly, the accounts are in the name of ‘the occupier’ and the local authority seem to have accepted the usage and the information on the bills relate to myself, as they do, and I pay them. 

Even though they still will not accept I live in the property for three or four days a week? 

So they appear happy to use an energy bill that is not in my name, but says ‘the occupier’ but deem me not to be the occupier? 

From a legal standpoint, surely they either accept me to be the occupier or this information must be inadmissible? 

Muttleythefrog

michael8626 said:

A quick update, the revenue organisation who act for the local councils in my area and myself are continuing to exchange pleasantries and waste further tax payer money. 

They have accessed the energy accounts for the property in question. I presume they have the relevant authority to do this, I’m not sure how I would check?

Interestingly, the accounts are in the name of ‘the occupier’ and the local authority seem to have accepted the usage and the information on the bills relate to myself, as they do, and I pay them. 

Even though they still will not accept I live in the property for three or four days a week? 

So they appear happy to use an energy bill that is not in my name, but says ‘the occupier’ but deem me not to be the occupier? 

From a legal standpoint, surely they either accept me to be the occupier or this information must be inadmissible? 

Hmmm think you might be scratching around to justify your continued approach which appears backed by your solicitor who I would default to the advice of. I imagine they will have powers to acquire such information in a fraud investigation. Occupier is a generic term I would say to refer to where the occupant (or person responsible for the premises) is not known - it actually suggests to me you're not living there as if you were I would have expected the energy account to be updated with your details that you supplied them on moving in... did you supply them with your details after the last tenant left? 

Spoonie_Turtle

Muttleythefrog said:

michael8626 said:

A quick update, the revenue organisation who act for the local councils in my area and myself are continuing to exchange pleasantries and waste further tax payer money. 

They have accessed the energy accounts for the property in question. I presume they have the relevant authority to do this, I’m not sure how I would check?

Interestingly, the accounts are in the name of ‘the occupier’ and the local authority seem to have accepted the usage and the information on the bills relate to myself, as they do, and I pay them. 

Even though they still will not accept I live in the property for three or four days a week? 

So they appear happy to use an energy bill that is not in my name, but says ‘the occupier’ but deem me not to be the occupier? 

From a legal standpoint, surely they either accept me to be the occupier or this information must be inadmissible? 

Hmmm think you might be scratching around to justify your continued approach which appears backed by your solicitor who I would default to the advice of. I imagine they will have powers to acquire such information in a fraud investigation. Occupier is a generic term I would say to refer to where the occupant (or person responsible for the premises) is not known - it actually suggests to me you're not living there as if you were I would have expected the energy account to be updated with your details that you supplied them on moving in... did you supply them with your details after the last tenant left? 

Exactly this - energy bills are addressed to 'The Occupier' when there is no name on the energy account.  When people move in they usually set up their own account with the supplier, then the bills are addressed by name. 

As the landlord you are automatically responsible for any bills in between tenants, whether you live there or not.  The fact you haven't set up an energy account in your name would seem to imply you are not living there, simply responsible for the bills between tenants as the landlord - as would be usual for an unoccupied rental house.

sevenhills

michael8626 said:

A quick update, the revenue organisation who act for the local councils in my area and myself are continuing to exchange pleasantries and waste further tax payer money. 

They have accessed the energy accounts for the property in question. I presume they have the relevant authority to do this, I’m not sure how I would check?

Is it a stonking large bill because you are living there, perhaps it has a smart meter so that would be proof that you do live there on certain days?

michael8626

Muttleythefrog said:

michael8626 said:

A quick update, the revenue organisation who act for the local councils in my area and myself are continuing to exchange pleasantries and waste further tax payer money. 

They have accessed the energy accounts for the property in question. I presume they have the relevant authority to do this, I’m not sure how I would check?

Interestingly, the accounts are in the name of ‘the occupier’ and the local authority seem to have accepted the usage and the information on the bills relate to myself, as they do, and I pay them. 

Even though they still will not accept I live in the property for three or four days a week? 

So they appear happy to use an energy bill that is not in my name, but says ‘the occupier’ but deem me not to be the occupier? 

From a legal standpoint, surely they either accept me to be the occupier or this information must be inadmissible? 

Hmmm think you might be scratching around to justify your continued approach which appears backed by your solicitor who I would default to the advice of. I imagine they will have powers to acquire such information in a fraud investigation. Occupier is a generic term I would say to refer to where the occupant (or person responsible for the premises) is not known - it actually suggests to me you're not living there as if you were I would have expected the energy account to be updated with your details that you supplied them on moving in... did you supply them with your details after the last tenant left? 

As I stated to my local authority, this was a temporary arrangement, between two properties for up to one year, whilst the property in question was being renovated and possibly sold. Nothing more sinister than that. 

I don’t really see this as scratching around, just curious as to the legal viewpoint and their acceptance of the word occupier. 

michael8626

sevenhills said:

michael8626 said:

A quick update, the revenue organisation who act for the local councils in my area and myself are continuing to exchange pleasantries and waste further tax payer money. 

They have accessed the energy accounts for the property in question. I presume they have the relevant authority to do this, I’m not sure how I would check?

Is it a stonking large bill because you are living there, perhaps it has a smart meter so that would be proof that you do live there on certain days?

Low usage because I was the only one living there for half the week, and billing mainly across summer months, as yes via a smart meter. 

michael8626

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Muttleythefrog said:

michael8626 said:

A quick update, the revenue organisation who act for the local councils in my area and myself are continuing to exchange pleasantries and waste further tax payer money. 

They have accessed the energy accounts for the property in question. I presume they have the relevant authority to do this, I’m not sure how I would check?

Interestingly, the accounts are in the name of ‘the occupier’ and the local authority seem to have accepted the usage and the information on the bills relate to myself, as they do, and I pay them. 

Even though they still will not accept I live in the property for three or four days a week? 

So they appear happy to use an energy bill that is not in my name, but says ‘the occupier’ but deem me not to be the occupier? 

From a legal standpoint, surely they either accept me to be the occupier or this information must be inadmissible? 

Hmmm think you might be scratching around to justify your continued approach which appears backed by your solicitor who I would default to the advice of. I imagine they will have powers to acquire such information in a fraud investigation. Occupier is a generic term I would say to refer to where the occupant (or person responsible for the premises) is not known - it actually suggests to me you're not living there as if you were I would have expected the energy account to be updated with your details that you supplied them on moving in... did you supply them with your details after the last tenant left? 

Exactly this - energy bills are addressed to 'The Occupier' when there is no name on the energy account.  When people move in they usually set up their own account with the supplier, then the bills are addressed by name. 

As the landlord you are automatically responsible for any bills in between tenants, whether you live there or not.  The fact you haven't set up an energy account in your name would seem to imply you are not living there, simply responsible for the bills between tenants as the landlord - as would be usual for an unoccupied rental house.

Many companies will use the term ‘the legal owner’ as that is more reflective of the situation.