The Range store refusing refund of faulty items without a receipt

DullGreyGuy

daniel1984uk said:

This is the conclusion I came to. (Which) and MSE say a receipt is not necessary, and that may be technically true. However I cannot find any legislation to back it up. There is clear evidence I bought them, but the range aren't going to bother digging it out.

There is no legislation to back it up. 

The law, like in many areas, is silent on practical details and deals much more in principles... given we have a common/english law system they can leave those matters to the courts to decide. There are much more gaping holes in the CRA like how you calculate the deduction for "use" for an item returned after the first 6 months. 

In civil law judgements are made on the balance of probabilities, ie what is most likely the truth. A receipt shows what you bought when etc and so is nice and clean and few are going to dispute that its evidence of the contract of sale but some will, as mentioned here already some will do a repeat purchase to return the original.

A bank statement simply shows a date that some payment was made... it doesnt show what it was for or even reliably the date the payment was authorised. In many cases people will buy multiple items but only return one or two of them and therefore in those cases the statement will show a value much higher than that being claimed. It may also show other transactions at a similar time from other stores that sell the same items so are you sure they were bought from the Range or maybe Pets@Home etc.

Ultimately it comes down to a judge to decide based on both sides arguments and evidence if you have convinced them that its more likely than not that you bought the items from the store on the date you claim. Personally, I'd soften MSE's advice to say if the receipt is gone not all is lost rather than the stronger statements they make about a bank statement being as good as a receipt.

RSD7a

FYI A few days ago I returned a leaking vacuum flask to The Range Edinburgh using a bank statement which showed an amount covering a number of items. No hassle at all. Full refund provided.

daniel1984uk

DullGreyGuy said:

daniel1984uk said:

This is the conclusion I came to. (Which) and MSE say a receipt is not necessary, and that may be technically true. However I cannot find any legislation to back it up. There is clear evidence I bought them, but the range aren't going to bother digging it out.

There is no legislation to back it up. 

The law, like in many areas, is silent on practical details and deals much more in principles... given we have a common/english law system they can leave those matters to the courts to decide. There are much more gaping holes in the CRA like how you calculate the deduction for "use" for an item returned after the first 6 months. 

In civil law judgements are made on the balance of probabilities, ie what is most likely the truth. A receipt shows what you bought when etc and so is nice and clean and few are going to dispute that its evidence of the contract of sale but some will, as mentioned here already some will do a repeat purchase to return the original.

A bank statement simply shows a date that some payment was made... it doesnt show what it was for or even reliably the date the payment was authorised. In many cases people will buy multiple items but only return one or two of them and therefore in those cases the statement will show a value much higher than that being claimed. It may also show other transactions at a similar time from other stores that sell the same items so are you sure they were bought from the Range or maybe Pets@Home etc.

Ultimately it comes down to a judge to decide based on both sides arguments and evidence if you have convinced them that its more likely than not that you bought the items from the store on the date you claim. Personally, I'd soften MSE's advice to say if the receipt is gone not all is lost rather than the stronger statements they make about a bank statement being as good as a receipt.

Thank you for taking the time, some great people on this forum.

RSD7a said:

FYI A few days ago I returned a leaking vacuum flask to The Range Edinburgh using a bank statement which showed an amount covering a number of items. No hassle at all. Full refund provided.

Thanks for that, that is very useless information, and will help when I write the letter :-)

Money_Grabber13579

daniel1984uk said:

DullGreyGuy said:

daniel1984uk said:

This is the conclusion I came to. (Which) and MSE say a receipt is not necessary, and that may be technically true. However I cannot find any legislation to back it up. There is clear evidence I bought them, but the range aren't going to bother digging it out.

There is no legislation to back it up. 

The law, like in many areas, is silent on practical details and deals much more in principles... given we have a common/english law system they can leave those matters to the courts to decide. There are much more gaping holes in the CRA like how you calculate the deduction for "use" for an item returned after the first 6 months. 

In civil law judgements are made on the balance of probabilities, ie what is most likely the truth. A receipt shows what you bought when etc and so is nice and clean and few are going to dispute that its evidence of the contract of sale but some will, as mentioned here already some will do a repeat purchase to return the original.

A bank statement simply shows a date that some payment was made... it doesnt show what it was for or even reliably the date the payment was authorised. In many cases people will buy multiple items but only return one or two of them and therefore in those cases the statement will show a value much higher than that being claimed. It may also show other transactions at a similar time from other stores that sell the same items so are you sure they were bought from the Range or maybe Pets@Home etc.

Ultimately it comes down to a judge to decide based on both sides arguments and evidence if you have convinced them that its more likely than not that you bought the items from the store on the date you claim. Personally, I'd soften MSE's advice to say if the receipt is gone not all is lost rather than the stronger statements they make about a bank statement being as good as a receipt.

Thank you for taking the time, some great people on this forum.

RSD7a said:

FYI A few days ago I returned a leaking vacuum flask to The Range Edinburgh using a bank statement which showed an amount covering a number of items. No hassle at all. Full refund provided.

Thanks for that, that is very useless information, and will help when I write the letter :-)

I suspect you meant useful rather than useless! 🙂

Gavin83

daniel1984uk said:

This seems to be the best solution. However, I don't fancy another heated discussion at my local store, there is no way that manager is going to accept that return either after out previous exchange. I am going to write to head office regardless as I am curious of their response. I won't take it any further than that for the above reasons. Had there been better legislation I certain would proceed further.

Probably a lesson to be learned here, don't let such an exchange get so heated in the future. It's rarely a good idea to get angry with the cashier/manager as it'll just make it even less likely you'll get a result and make them more likely to remember you in the future.

Still, how much of a problem this is will depend on how much you want the stones. You could of course go to another Range store, assuming they sell them of course. If you want them regardless you could just buy them and attempt to return them anyway. If they say no then you haven't really lost out. If they say yes then you have a result. There is also the possibility you won't see the manager at all. They can't work every day.

In all honesty if you have the receipt and the product I think they'd find it hard to refuse the refund.

daniel1984uk

Money_Grabber13579 said:

daniel1984uk said:

DullGreyGuy said:

daniel1984uk said:

This is the conclusion I came to. (Which) and MSE say a receipt is not necessary, and that may be technically true. However I cannot find any legislation to back it up. There is clear evidence I bought them, but the range aren't going to bother digging it out.

There is no legislation to back it up. 

The law, like in many areas, is silent on practical details and deals much more in principles... given we have a common/english law system they can leave those matters to the courts to decide. There are much more gaping holes in the CRA like how you calculate the deduction for "use" for an item returned after the first 6 months. 

In civil law judgements are made on the balance of probabilities, ie what is most likely the truth. A receipt shows what you bought when etc and so is nice and clean and few are going to dispute that its evidence of the contract of sale but some will, as mentioned here already some will do a repeat purchase to return the original.

A bank statement simply shows a date that some payment was made... it doesnt show what it was for or even reliably the date the payment was authorised. In many cases people will buy multiple items but only return one or two of them and therefore in those cases the statement will show a value much higher than that being claimed. It may also show other transactions at a similar time from other stores that sell the same items so are you sure they were bought from the Range or maybe Pets@Home etc.

Ultimately it comes down to a judge to decide based on both sides arguments and evidence if you have convinced them that its more likely than not that you bought the items from the store on the date you claim. Personally, I'd soften MSE's advice to say if the receipt is gone not all is lost rather than the stronger statements they make about a bank statement being as good as a receipt.

Thank you for taking the time, some great people on this forum.

RSD7a said:

FYI A few days ago I returned a leaking vacuum flask to The Range Edinburgh using a bank statement which showed an amount covering a number of items. No hassle at all. Full refund provided.

Thanks for that, that is very useless information, and will help when I write the letter :-)

I suspect you meant useful rather than useless! 🙂

Opps sorry, yes i did!what a plonker i am lol
Gavin83 said: 

daniel1984uk said:

This seems to be the best solution. However, I don't fancy another heated discussion at my local store, there is no way that manager is going to accept that return either after out previous exchange. I am going to write to head office regardless as I am curious of their response. I won't take it any further than that for the above reasons. Had there been better legislation I certain would proceed further.

Probably a lesson to be learned here, don't let such an exchange get so heated in the future. It's rarely a good idea to get angry with the cashier/manager as it'll just make it even less likely you'll get a result and make them more likely to remember you in the future.

Still, how much of a problem this is will depend on how much you want the stones. You could of course go to another Range store, assuming they sell them of course. If you want them regardless you could just buy them and attempt to return them anyway. If they say no then you haven't really lost out. If they say yes then you have a result. There is also the possibility you won't see the manager at all. They can't work every day.

In all honesty if you have the receipt and the product I think they'd find it hard to refuse the refund.

It never got heated straight away, it was his dismissive attitude and insistence on a receipt that wound me up. Im not aggressive by nature, it was very much a one off. I never got angry at all with the cashier I even apologised to them for both mine and the managers behaviour. 

I have not sent a letter to head office :-)

Brie

For those that are dismissive of the total amount being under a tenner.  So what?  Should one only complain about shoddy items if they cost thousands?  And even a couple of pounds may be a lot to an individual, while it will be nothing to a company with stores across the country.

daniel1984uk

I couldn't agree more, im on a very low income myself. However its definitely more of a principle thing for me.

So this is still unresolved, however i have made progress. I sent the letter to head office, they acknowledged reviving it very quickly but then took over two weeks to reply. I have since had a series of disjointed support emails with several representatives.I finally received a pdf copy of the til receipt from them a few days ago proving proof of purchase. They also confirmed the store cannot refuse the refund, and they should have checked the for the til receipt. They told me if i go back and i have any problems that i should tell the manager to ring head office.

So im off to the store again soon. If they still refuse Id probably take it further now i have the til receipt.

Oh and i did go to another store a few weeks ago to do a switcharoo purchase. Sods law they had all been removed from the shelves!

Thanks all, ill be back.

[Deleted User]

Tucosalamanca said:

Since the most expensive air stones shown on The Range website are £3.29 each, this whole saga seems crazy for £6.58.
What a kerfuffle!

It's the principle.