Standing Charges and Prepayment meters

w0z

If someone has a prepay meter and runs out of credit and is then cut off, does the standing charge accumulate for the days where they don't effectively have a supply?
 I genuinely don't know the answer but I suspect it does accumulate and if so, please Martin Lewis we need legislation to ensure that in the event the supply is cut off due to the customer being unable to afford to top up the meter, the standing charge should stop at that point and only continue once the supply is restored, because if it's a lengthy period the customer will find their top-up being swallowed by the accumulated standing charge.
I despise the fact that energy companies can change customers to prepayment without their permission - once again it is the most vulnerable who are hardest hit. This is one very good reason not to agree to a smart meter OR when agreeing only agree if there is a  clause/condition to say the meter cannot be switched to prepay without the account holders permission. We need this in legislation.

EssexHebridean

With an old style dumb meter, suppliers have to go to court and then gain a warrant for entry to change a meter when they are dealing with a persistent non payer who will not engage with them. This involves forcing entry to the property if needed. 

With a modern smart meter, suppliers still have to go to court for the permission to change the meter to prepayment when dealing with a persistent non payer who will not engage with them, so far as I’m aware. It’s simply that the change then doesn’t involve forcing entry as it can be done remotely - meaning potentially less distress caused to others in the property who may not be responsible for the situation that has arisen. 

Given a choice between a switch over being done remotely, or via what the Police routinely refer to as “the big red key” - I think I’d prefer remote, to be honest. On the other hand, if I was struggling to keep up with my energy bills, I’d be talking to the supplier, rather than ignoring their efforts to contact me. I’d be paying what I could afford rather than paying nothing. 

It’s also worth mentioning that frequently Prepayment can now be cheaper for electricity than direct debit - so a switch to prepayment could actually mean someone who is struggling paying less. 

pochase

I am on credit meter and I don't use gas in summer. I still have to pay s standing charge even if I don't use the "service" for several month.

Same with a standing charge on prepaid while you are disconnected because you don't have any funds on the meter.

The energy suppliers don't keep the money for the standing charge, they are collecting it for third parties and have to pay it forward. They need to pay this for every single meter and day for each customer.

So who should be paying the standing charge if not the customer?

Regarding switching to prepaid, as @EssexHebridean already wrote if you don't pay the supplier has the right to switch you to prepaid, they have to go to court not for the right to switch you, but just for a warrant for entry if you are on a dumb meter.

In both scenarios they cannot just do so, they have to follow a process defined by Ofgem where they have to arrange a debt repayment.

The problem comes if you are unable not just to pay off the debt, but somebody is not even able to pay the ongoing energy use.

diystarter7

w0z said:

If someone has a prepay meter and runs out of credit and is then cut off, does the standing charge accumulate for the days where they don't effectively have a supply?
 I genuinely don't know the answer but I suspect it does accumulate and if so, please Martin Lewis we need legislation to ensure that in the event the supply is cut off due to the customer being unable to afford to top up the meter, the standing charge should stop at that point and only continue once the supply is restored, because if it's a lengthy period the customer will find their top-up being swallowed by the accumulated standing charge.
I despise the fact that energy companies can change customers to prepayment without their permission - once again it is the most vulnerable who are hardest hit. This is one very good reason not to agree to a smart meter OR when agreeing only agree if there is a  clause/condition to say the meter cannot be switched to prepay without the account holders permission. We need this in legislation.

Hi
Great post.
Thankfully through education from our parents, skills and a bit of luck we are manging with fuel prices but worried nevertheless.

I thought about prepayment meters but reading stuff like this and others put me off

I completely agree with you and as always, its those that are on their knees are hit the hardest.

Even those feeling smug re smart meters. In a few years time or sooner when everyone is forced to have a smarty meter, soon you/all will be paying higher prices peak periods and the hardest hit will be those on low/middle wages that can only cook/wash during peak hours - workers will be the hardes hit on the whole and going to working is always costing more via transport costs rises.

Good thread and I hope Martin can support this

Spoonie_Turtle

pochase said:

So who should be paying the standing charge if not the customer?

For the people who really really can't afford it, Octopus may waive it for a period of time.  (One of their various tools to help people in genuine difficulty, people can't just ask for the SC to be waived.)

diystarter7

OP

My sincerest apologies for posting the link below, but in my humble opinion it may help some on Smart meters

It is unfair to force people onto smart meters. 

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2023/january/british-gas-prepayment-meter-p250-credit/?_ga=2.171849510.707856490.1673947485-1674728755.1673947483&_gl=1*1rhhqni*_ga*MTY3NDcyODc1NS4xNjczOTQ3NDgz*_ga_X74CWQS9F0*MTY3NDAzNjg0OC4yLjEuMTY3NDA3NDQxMC41Mi4wLjA.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6418327/british-gas-to-give-struggling-prepayment-meter-customers-a-250-free-credit#latest

Thanks

EssexHebridean

Direct link to the article on the MSE main site is here to save you a click: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2023/january/british-gas-prepayment-meter-p250-credit/?_ga=2.164280057.795927152.1673550270-1189450367.1663138608&_gl=1*1eoa4yu*_ga*MTE4OTQ1MDM2Ny4xNjYzMTM4NjA4*_ga_X74CWQS9F0*MTY3NDA2ODk0My4xMzMuMS4xNjc0MDc0MjEzLjQ0LjAuMA..

diystarter7

Hi

looks like some good news re people being forced on to smart meters, about time


https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/cost-of-living/smart-meter-warning-people-forced-25970870

Thanks

pochase

The main difference between a remote switch for a smart meter user to prepaid and the supplier getting a warrant for entry to swap the existing meter to prepaid (which will be a swap to a smart meter in prepaid mode) is that the later will add additional costs, which will be added to the debt on the meter.

Yes it will take longer to go the way of the warrant for entry, but the result will be the same. 

 

EssexHebridean

That Liverpool Echo article is yet another one trotting out the tired inaccurate old line about prepayment meters being more expensive. Makes me question whether they have researched any of the other stuff in the piece, as clearly they didn’t bother researching that! 

diystarter7

No thanks
I'll stick with the Liverpool Echo as a credible source