Induction vs gas, running costs

Exiled_Tyke

It's a stand alone Panasonic. I'll check the model number and also check how it works to make sure I'm not telling you lies!

waqasahmed

Exiled_Tyke said:

It's a stand alone Panasonic. I'll check the model number and also check how it works to make sure I'm not telling you lies!

I'd hazard a guess that my Sharp would also do quite well? It is after all a cheaper alternative to Panasonic (and with decent quality)

I too will look at my microwave usage RE: solar/battery when it's a bit brighter

Martyn1981

Exiled_Tyke said:

It's a stand alone Panasonic. I'll check the model number and also check how it works to make sure I'm not telling you lies!

I was watching our energy consumption monitor a while back when the microwave was running. We were pretty much at neutral, with PV balancing out the rest of consumption, so the monitor was showing 0 for a few seconds, then ~1,500W for a few seconds, then back to zero, and so on. I pondered at the time, what a PITA that was for PV (at less than the 1,500W max), so I can imagine it being even worse for batteries.

Just had a silly thought, I'll see if I can find 'it'.

Easier than I thought:

Father Ted | Christmas Lights

matelodave

There are basically two sorts of microwave oven (if you exclude those with heating and grilling elements)

Mosty they just have a magetron that gets pulsed at full blast for a few second and then rest and pulse again - you can usually hear the pulsing. To reduce the heating power it makes the off time longer than the on time. Although you may have only a 700watt microwave, the on/off cycling averages out at 700watts although the on-time can be as high at 12-1400watts.

The second sort are usually more expensive as they are inverter driven (Panasonic, for instance) in which the magnetron is driven by a variable power inverter which enables the oven to only use the power thats been set by the controls rather than pulsing it at full blast.

Inverter driven ovens should be a bit cheaper to run but its probably debateable as to whether you save any money compared with a cheap and cheerful oven that costs half as much.

waqasahmed

matelodave said:

There are basically two sorts of microwave oven (if you exclude those with heating and grilling elements)

Mosty they just have a magetron that gets pulsed at full blast for a few second and then rest and pulse again - you can usually hear the pulsing. To reduce the heating power it makes the off time longer than the on time. Although you may have only a 700watt microwave, the on/off cycling averages out at 700watts although the on-time can be as high at 12-1400watts.

The second sort are usually more expensive as they are inverter driven (Panasonic, for instance) in which the magnetron is driven by a variable power inverter which enables the oven to only use the power thats been set by the controls rather than pulsing it at full blast.

Inverter driven ovens should be a bit cheaper to run but its probably debateable as to whether you save any money compared with a cheap and cheerful oven that costs half as much.

Ahh. My sharp is inverter driven I believe

EDIT: It doesn't

Solarchaser

matelodave said:

Mosty they just have a magetron that gets pulsed at full blast for a few second and then rest and pulse again - you can usually hear the pulsing. To reduce the heating power it makes the off time longer than the on time. Although you may have only a 700watt microwave, the on/off cycling averages out at 700watts although the on-time can be as high at 12-1400watts.

Yip, that's how they work, or at least used to when I repaired them about 20 odd years ago.
And funnily enough that's how the induction hobs work also. (Though not with a magnetron thankfully)
You can usually hear them coming on and off if you listen for it.
Higher Power levels mean more on time than off time, lower power levels the opposite. 

Microwave is generally the only household appliance that is still dangerous when switched off. (Now that CRT TV's are gone)
That magnetron will give you some belt!

Side note cos it came to my mind.
Once had a microwave dropped off at the company I worked, owner said he got a shock every time he put his hand in the microwave ..... he had cut a hole in the front door, even through the mesh, so he could reach in and grab the food while the microwave was running.
Yep really!
Some folk!!

waqasahmed

waqasahmed said:

matelodave said:

There are basically two sorts of microwave oven (if you exclude those with heating and grilling elements)

Mosty they just have a magetron that gets pulsed at full blast for a few second and then rest and pulse again - you can usually hear the pulsing. To reduce the heating power it makes the off time longer than the on time. Although you may have only a 700watt microwave, the on/off cycling averages out at 700watts although the on-time can be as high at 12-1400watts.

The second sort are usually more expensive as they are inverter driven (Panasonic, for instance) in which the magnetron is driven by a variable power inverter which enables the oven to only use the power thats been set by the controls rather than pulsing it at full blast.

Inverter driven ovens should be a bit cheaper to run but its probably debateable as to whether you save any money compared with a cheap and cheerful oven that costs half as much.

Ahh. My sharp is inverter driven I believe

EDIT: It doesn't

Just used my microwave. My IHD shows I was importing 0w so I I guess that's a win

Exiled_Tyke

matelodave said:

Inverter driven ovens should be a bit cheaper to run but its probably debateable as to whether you save any money compared with a cheap and cheerful oven that costs half as much.

This was really helpful thanks.    For those of us with PV, peaks and troughs in consumption are to be avoided!  There's a greater chance of exceeding PV production and importing from the grid.  So the savings will be greater.   But will they be worth the £200 it cost.  I'll never know but I didn't buy it for this benefit which I didn't know about at the time.

waqasahmed

Exiled_Tyke said:

matelodave said:

Inverter driven ovens should be a bit cheaper to run but its probably debateable as to whether you save any money compared with a cheap and cheerful oven that costs half as much.

This was really helpful thanks.    For those of us with PV, peaks and troughs in consumption are to be avoided!  There's a greater chance of exceeding PV production and importing from the grid.  So the savings will be greater.   But will they be worth the £200 it cost.  I'll never know but I didn't buy it for this benefit which I didn't know about at the time.

FWIW, my non inverter Sharp apparently does that too. See above 

JKenH

Are gas stoves really dangerous? What we know about the science

I’m surprised no one has mentioned this aspect - pollution.

There are two ways gas stoves pollute your home. The first is the most obvious: when they’re in use. Burning gas creates heat, which causes nitrogen and oxygen to bond among the flames. They combine to create nitric oxide and nitrogen dioxide, collectively known as NOx, which can irritate the lungs. But that’s not the only compound to worry about. Cooking with gas can also emit carbon monoxide, particulate matter and even formaldehyde. Those all have various deleterious health impacts, and can affect the respiratory and cardiovascular systems.

There’s probably a more insidious form of pollution emanating from your stove. A growing body of research shows gas stoves emit toxic compounds even when not in use. Among the most worrisome is benzene, a carcinogen. A study by PSE Healthy Energy found benzene in 99% of samples it took in homes in California. Other chemicals discovered included xylene, toluene and ethylbenzene, which can also cause respiratory issues and may cause cancer as well.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jan/15/gas-stoves-pollution-alternatives

Maybe if Big Auto were manufacturing gas stoves we would hear a bit more about it. 

Edit: Maybe Sadiq Khan ought to charge polluters for using gas cookers as well as driving cars in the ULEZ

Exclusive: Gas cookers as toxic as ‘second hand smoke’, study reveals

“Gas cooking appliances need health warning labels like cigarette packets,” she continues, adding that “EU officials have an obligation to consider these health risks”.

https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/01/09/exclusive-gas-cookers-as-toxic-as-second-hand-smoke-study-reveals