Leak 1 litre per hour

outtatune

Green_hopeful said:

outtatune said:

Have you done this yet?

outtatune said:

Do you have isolating valves on your various watery stuff? If so turn everything off then turn stuff on one at a time until the leak shows up again. Hopefully it's just a toilet inlet valve as that's cheap and easy to fix.

No but I was on my own in the house so I wiped each toilet bowl to check for moisture. I also checked all the basins for moisture. I checked the outside tap by putting a bucket under it and traced the pipe work back through the wall behind the tumble drier. The only obvious water was the shower. But when I checked last night it was only a small amount. Going to check the kitchen tap today because I haven’t done it but you would think we would notice.

The mind boggles. Here's a methodical approach that you could have used to locate the leak on the day you were told about it, but you're still randomly guessing - and only guessing sources you can actually see, whereas most of your plumbing will be out of sight.

plumb1_2

Have fiscally checked the tanks in the loft ?

Green_hopeful

Thanks for all the comments. We are not randomly guessing. We first checked the cisterns, perhaps the most common cause of lost water. We have checked if it’s internal or external. We have checked any taps or showers. We have checked all the ceilings to make sure it isn’t leaking upstairs. We have rooms in the loft and the tank in the roof is not accessible. I think they built the rooms around it. There is a tiny hatch which I have lifted to listen for dripping. I have listened generally when the house is empty and the heating is off. It does appear to be increasing so I guess we will find out quite soon but will keep looking for it.

outtatune

Green_hopeful said:

Thanks for all the comments. We are not randomly guessing. We first checked the cisterns, perhaps the most common cause of lost water. We have checked if it’s internal or external. We have checked any taps or showers. We have checked all the ceilings to make sure it isn’t leaking upstairs. We have rooms in the loft and the tank in the roof is not accessible. I think they built the rooms around it. There is a tiny hatch which I have lifted to listen for dripping. I have listened generally when the house is empty and the heating is off. It does appear to be increasing so I guess we will find out quite soon but will keep looking for it.

But you haven't actually tried to isolate the leak by ... isolating the leak.

droopsnoot

plumb1_2 said:

The last excessive use of water job I went to investigate, I traced it down to the ballvalve on the f&e tank in the loft.
some numpty had re routed the overflow pipe into the gutter when they had the facia boards changed. So wasn’t visible.

Sorry for dragging this off-topic a bit, but I have this same situation. I have two tanks in the loft - the central heating reservoir and the main cold water tank - which both have overflow pipes, teed together, and draining into the gutter that runs along the edge of the roof. That used to be a longer pipe, I'm sure, and probably was done when the facia boards were replaced.

 Can I ask why it's a "numpty" thing to do that? Is it just because it's less obvious when the overflow is running? I've had to replace the fill valves on both tanks in the last 12 months, but on both occasions I could see water coming down the downpipe when it hadn't been raining. A separate overflow would have made it a little clearer, but not much. I just wondered why you consider it a bad thing.

Section62

droopsnoot said:

plumb1_2 said:

The last excessive use of water job I went to investigate, I traced it down to the ballvalve on the f&e tank in the loft.
some numpty had re routed the overflow pipe into the gutter when they had the facia boards changed. So wasn’t visible.

 Can I ask why it's a "numpty" thing to do that? Is it just because it's less obvious when the overflow is running? I've had to replace the fill valves on both tanks in the last 12 months, but on both occasions I could see water coming down the downpipe when it hadn't been raining. A separate overflow would have made it a little clearer, but not much. I just wondered why you consider it a bad thing.

The technical term for the 'overflow' pipe is "warning pipe" - the idea being that water flowing out of the pipe is a warning that the ball valve isn't working properly.  By routeing the warning pipe into the gutter (or similar place it can't be seen) it defeats the function of 'warning' the occupants that something is wrong.

'T'ing two warning pipes together needs to be done carefully - check to make sure yours isn't set up so flow from one cistern can backflow into the other one if the warning pipe gets (partially) blocked.  Of particular concern is if the overflow from the F&E could flow into the cold water storage tank (i.e. if the F&E is positioned higher than the CWS).

droopsnoot

Section62 said:

droopsnoot said:

plumb1_2 said:

The last excessive use of water job I went to investigate, I traced it down to the ballvalve on the f&e tank in the loft.
some numpty had re routed the overflow pipe into the gutter when they had the facia boards changed. So wasn’t visible.

 Can I ask why it's a "numpty" thing to do that? Is it just because it's less obvious when the overflow is running? I've had to replace the fill valves on both tanks in the last 12 months, but on both occasions I could see water coming down the downpipe when it hadn't been raining. A separate overflow would have made it a little clearer, but not much. I just wondered why you consider it a bad thing.

The technical term for the 'overflow' pipe is "warning pipe" - the idea being that water flowing out of the pipe is a warning that the ball valve isn't working properly.  By routeing the warning pipe into the gutter (or similar place it can't be seen) it defeats the function of 'warning' the occupants that something is wrong.

'T'ing two warning pipes together needs to be done carefully - check to make sure yours isn't set up so flow from one cistern can backflow into the other one if the warning pipe gets (partially) blocked.  Of particular concern is if the overflow from the F&E could flow into the cold water storage tank (i.e. if the F&E is positioned higher than the CWS).

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind as I look at stuff (I'm new to this house lark), I am keeping an eye on the downspout to make sure it is generally dry unless it's been raining. I suspect the problem is that the location of the guttering prevents the warning pipe from doing anything other than dropping into it - the only other option would be either lower all the guttering, or stop it either side of the warning pipe.

I see what you mean about the joining of the two pipes - if the section after the join gets blocked, then I have a serious problem if I also get a sticking fill valve. The larger cold water tank has the outlet above that of the central heating tank, simply because they're both mounted on the same rafters and one is bigger than the other. The only way I expect I could fix this would be to run a separate pipe, but then I just have two pipes to worry about becoming blocked instead of one.

Section62

droopsnoot said:

I see what you mean about the joining of the two pipes - if the section after the join gets blocked, then I have a serious problem if I also get a sticking fill valve. The larger cold water tank has the outlet above that of the central heating tank, simply because they're both mounted on the same rafters and one is bigger than the other. The only way I expect I could fix this would be to run a separate pipe, but then I just have two pipes to worry about becoming blocked instead of one.

If the warning/overflow pipe of the CWS is higher than the top edge of the F&E tank then you won't have the worst problem of contamination of the CWS and distribution system - as the water would overflow the top of the F&E tank and flood the loft instead.

In other words, if the shared pipe did get blocked, the only thing you have to worry about would be water overflowing from the F&E tank into the loft space, which could happen regardless of which tank had a stuck or broken valve.

JohnB47

Having lived in few houses, each with two header tanks in the loft and each with ball valves, I'm so glad now to have a combi boiler that doesn't need either.

 Ball valves are the work of the devil.

plumb1_2

JohnB47 said:

Having lived in few houses, each with two header tanks in the loft and each with ball valves, I'm so glad now to have a combi boiler that doesn't need either.

 Ball valves are the work of the devil.

No they are not, cowboy so called trades people and diyers who don’t know what they are doing are devils. Like joining overflow/warning pipes together just because it’s easier. And not drilling fresh holes in the facia board
Heat only boiler and pressurised cylinder every time over a Combi.
Section 62 explains it very well.