Inheriting unmortgageable property 12 January at 10:09PM in Deaths, funerals & probate 35 replies 2.3K views

lisyloo

Marcon said:

lisyloo said:

user1977 said:

I doubt the difference in value is going to be anything like that - if it were that easy to make a huge profit, you'd have a queue of eager cash buyers, which would make the "unmortgageable" value much higher, surely? Have you actually had anybody value it yet?

UPDATE: Well this is interesting.

Estate agent 1 says: mortgageable value = £250K, probate value is the same without PRC as we know from local knowledge that the buildings in that street are sound and it's just a case of "getting a piece of paper".

Estate agent 2 says: mortgageable value = £250K, probate value because it is only available for cash buyers only is £150K.

I think estate agent 2 is wrong and not taking account of the fact that we are fairly sure it's just a case of paying a surveyor for the piece of paper so no-one in their right mind would sell it for £150K when the piece of paper if £1K but I have a vested interest.

Anyone want to comment on which is right?

Do you think the time might have come for the executors to ask for help on this particular aspect of things from a properly qualified and informed solicitor? Opinions here are usually well meaning, but rarely have access to all relevant facts, let alone sight of relevant documents - and you definitely don't have any comeback if you act on 'advice' given on a public forum which turns out to be wrong.

No it's not the right time for them for personal reasons (although everyone agrees its needed).

But professional advice is exactly what we've got. We've got professional property valuations.
Or are you saying we need to ask the solicitors which professional opinion is correct in the area of property valuations ????

Of course any opinions here are to direct what to do not to take as gospel.

So your advice if when professional advice conflicta in their specialist area then ask a solicitor which one is right ???

Daniel54

lisyloo said:

Marcon said:

lisyloo said:

user1977 said:

I doubt the difference in value is going to be anything like that - if it were that easy to make a huge profit, you'd have a queue of eager cash buyers, which would make the "unmortgageable" value much higher, surely? Have you actually had anybody value it yet?

UPDATE: Well this is interesting.

Estate agent 1 says: mortgageable value = £250K, probate value is the same without PRC as we know from local knowledge that the buildings in that street are sound and it's just a case of "getting a piece of paper".

Estate agent 2 says: mortgageable value = £250K, probate value because it is only available for cash buyers only is £150K.

I think estate agent 2 is wrong and not taking account of the fact that we are fairly sure it's just a case of paying a surveyor for the piece of paper so no-one in their right mind would sell it for £150K when the piece of paper if £1K but I have a vested interest.

Anyone want to comment on which is right?

Do you think the time might have come for the executors to ask for help on this particular aspect of things from a properly qualified and informed solicitor? Opinions here are usually well meaning, but rarely have access to all relevant facts, let alone sight of relevant documents - and you definitely don't have any comeback if you act on 'advice' given on a public forum which turns out to be wrong.

No it's not the right time for them for personal reasons (although everyone agrees its needed).

But professional advice is exactly what we've got. We've got professional property valuations.
Or are you saying we need to ask the solicitors which professional opinion is correct in the area of property valuations ????

Of course any opinions here are to direct what to do not to take as gospel.

So your advice if when professional advice conflicta in their specialist area then ask a solicitor which one is right ???

When you say you have professional valuations,it is not clear whether these are RICS or not .I assume, possibly incorrectly,these are the views of local estate agents

As the estate seems to fall well under IHT your chances of being challenged by the district valuer are low to negligible

it seems to me you really need to pin down,with professional estimates,the cost of making the property mortgageable

As executors you then end up with a view,on behalf of the beneficiaries ,whether it is money worth spending or not.

Technically the value of the property is at date of death.But I don’t know if this valuation can include significant value uplift for a small outlay.Others may be able to help.

 

Marcon

lisyloo said:

Marcon said:

lisyloo said:

user1977 said:

I doubt the difference in value is going to be anything like that - if it were that easy to make a huge profit, you'd have a queue of eager cash buyers, which would make the "unmortgageable" value much higher, surely? Have you actually had anybody value it yet?

UPDATE: Well this is interesting.

Estate agent 1 says: mortgageable value = £250K, probate value is the same without PRC as we know from local knowledge that the buildings in that street are sound and it's just a case of "getting a piece of paper".

Estate agent 2 says: mortgageable value = £250K, probate value because it is only available for cash buyers only is £150K.

I think estate agent 2 is wrong and not taking account of the fact that we are fairly sure it's just a case of paying a surveyor for the piece of paper so no-one in their right mind would sell it for £150K when the piece of paper if £1K but I have a vested interest.

Anyone want to comment on which is right?

Do you think the time might have come for the executors to ask for help on this particular aspect of things from a properly qualified and informed solicitor? Opinions here are usually well meaning, but rarely have access to all relevant facts, let alone sight of relevant documents - and you definitely don't have any comeback if you act on 'advice' given on a public forum which turns out to be wrong.

No it's not the right time for them for personal reasons (although everyone agrees its needed).

But professional advice is exactly what we've got. We've got professional property valuations.
Or are you saying we need to ask the solicitors which professional opinion is correct in the area of property valuations ????

Of course any opinions here are to direct what to do not to take as gospel.

So your advice if when professional advice conflicta in their specialist area then ask a solicitor which one is right ???

You have a couple of valuations from estate agents - and if they are both qualified professionals (?are they RICS members?), you'd expect those views to tally in principle, even if the actual valuations differ slightly.

If the executors don't want to take advice now, then you might wish to do so on your own behalf - assuming the executors would then be willing to act on that and you're willing to foot the bill if necessary. Would that get you round the issue and enable things to move forward?

lisyloo

Daniel54 said:

lisyloo said:

Marcon said:

lisyloo said:

user1977 said:

I doubt the difference in value is going to be anything like that - if it were that easy to make a huge profit, you'd have a queue of eager cash buyers, which would make the "unmortgageable" value much higher, surely? Have you actually had anybody value it yet?

UPDATE: Well this is interesting.

Estate agent 1 says: mortgageable value = £250K, probate value is the same without PRC as we know from local knowledge that the buildings in that street are sound and it's just a case of "getting a piece of paper".

Estate agent 2 says: mortgageable value = £250K, probate value because it is only available for cash buyers only is £150K.

I think estate agent 2 is wrong and not taking account of the fact that we are fairly sure it's just a case of paying a surveyor for the piece of paper so no-one in their right mind would sell it for £150K when the piece of paper if £1K but I have a vested interest.

Anyone want to comment on which is right?

Do you think the time might have come for the executors to ask for help on this particular aspect of things from a properly qualified and informed solicitor? Opinions here are usually well meaning, but rarely have access to all relevant facts, let alone sight of relevant documents - and you definitely don't have any comeback if you act on 'advice' given on a public forum which turns out to be wrong.

No it's not the right time for them for personal reasons (although everyone agrees its needed).

But professional advice is exactly what we've got. We've got professional property valuations.
Or are you saying we need to ask the solicitors which professional opinion is correct in the area of property valuations ????

Of course any opinions here are to direct what to do not to take as gospel.

So your advice if when professional advice conflicta in their specialist area then ask a solicitor which one is right ???

When you say you have professional valuations,it is not clear whether these are RICS or not .I assume, possibly incorrectly,these are the views of local estate agents

As the estate seems to fall well under IHT your chances of being challenged by the district valuer are low to negligible

it seems to me you really need to pin down,with professional estimates,the cost of making the property mortgageable

As executors you then end up with a view,on behalf of the beneficiaries ,whether it is money worth spending or not.

Technically the value of the property is at date of death.But I don’t know if this valuation can include significant value uplift for a small outlay.Others may be able to help.

 

The issue is not IHT, it's CGT.
i.e. £100K gain is £26320 in CGT.

We believe the cost of making the property mortgageable is approx £1000 to get the piece of paper.
That is based on local knowledge of multiple other properties that have sold in the street.

Thanks for the advice on "estate agent views" vs professional valuations. I didn't really appreciate that and exactly the kind of helpful comment I was looking for.

lisyloo

Marcon said:

lisyloo said:

Marcon said:

lisyloo said:

user1977 said:

I doubt the difference in value is going to be anything like that - if it were that easy to make a huge profit, you'd have a queue of eager cash buyers, which would make the "unmortgageable" value much higher, surely? Have you actually had anybody value it yet?

UPDATE: Well this is interesting.

Estate agent 1 says: mortgageable value = £250K, probate value is the same without PRC as we know from local knowledge that the buildings in that street are sound and it's just a case of "getting a piece of paper".

Estate agent 2 says: mortgageable value = £250K, probate value because it is only available for cash buyers only is £150K.

I think estate agent 2 is wrong and not taking account of the fact that we are fairly sure it's just a case of paying a surveyor for the piece of paper so no-one in their right mind would sell it for £150K when the piece of paper if £1K but I have a vested interest.

Anyone want to comment on which is right?

Do you think the time might have come for the executors to ask for help on this particular aspect of things from a properly qualified and informed solicitor? Opinions here are usually well meaning, but rarely have access to all relevant facts, let alone sight of relevant documents - and you definitely don't have any comeback if you act on 'advice' given on a public forum which turns out to be wrong.

No it's not the right time for them for personal reasons (although everyone agrees its needed).

But professional advice is exactly what we've got. We've got professional property valuations.
Or are you saying we need to ask the solicitors which professional opinion is correct in the area of property valuations ????

Of course any opinions here are to direct what to do not to take as gospel.

So your advice if when professional advice conflicta in their specialist area then ask a solicitor which one is right ???

You have a couple of valuations from estate agents - and if they are both qualified professionals (?are they RICS members?), you'd expect those views to tally in principle, even if the actual valuations differ slightly.

If the executors don't want to take advice now, then you might wish to do so on your own behalf - assuming the executors would then be willing to act on that and you're willing to foot the bill if necessary. Would that get you round the issue and enable things to move forward?

One estate agent is taking account of local knowledge i.e. the assumption is it's £1000 for a piece of paper and no building work. This is based on actual knowledge.
I don't believe the second valuation is correct (as user1977 said there would be people queueing up to make £100K for £1K investment) but I'm being cautious as I clearly have a vested interest in that view.

The executors absolutely DO want to take advice at the earliest opportunity and definitely see the value in it, but because of other personal issues (like other parents dying) are not doing so right this minute. I didn't want to get into personal details just explaining why I'm getting info here and not professional advice right at this minute. We are unfortunately at that age where we have other sick parents, dying parents as well as hospital appointments of our own, so it's not always that simple to drop everything. 

We have a plan to go forward, I was just trying to get things straight to refine the questions for the solicitors as they are ££££ per hour.

I got to speak to one estate agent and explain the situation and she was happy to deal with me on behalf of the executors.
I did not get to speak directly to the other agent and they wouldn't discuss with me. I understand the reasons but I don't think it helped.