Car insurance question for underwriters

squirrelpie

I just bought car insurance. My insurer asked me whether my car was fitted with some equipment that is actually standard equipment on the car. They insisted I answer and then tried to increase the premium when I said yes. They say this is a requirement of their underwriters but they won't tell me who the underwriters are and they won't ask the underwriters themselves about this. It seems wrong that this should be a 'black box' with no recourse. Is there any way to get them or the underwriters to explain? Or any government agency?

baser999

Perhaps it’s just me, but not sure what you’re asking? Insurers would always ask if the vehicle has been modified in any way, which would include having any additional equipment fitted. 

As for the underwriters, does their name not appear on the policy documents?

squirrelpie

baser999 said:

Perhaps it’s just me, but not sure what you’re asking? Insurers would always ask if the vehicle has been modified in any way, which would include having any additional equipment fitted.

I could understand that but they're asking about STANDARD equipment, not something additional, and then increasing the price when I say yes.

As for the underwriters, does their name not appear on the policy documents?

I don't think so. I don't have any relationship with them, so why would it? Where would you expect to find it?

400ixl

The underwriter is usually identified on the insurance certificate or schedule.

What standard equipment are they asking about, no point in being vague as it doesn't help anyone give answers.

squirrelpie

400ixl said:

The underwriter is usually identified on the insurance certificate or schedule.

Well I can't see the name anywhere, as I said. I imagine if it was, they wouldn't have refused to give me the name when I asked.

What standard equipment are they asking about, no point in being vague as it doesn't help anyone give answers.

Reversing sensors

400ixl

By reversing sensors I assume you mean rear parking sensors. That is an odd one to be calling out in the way you are describing. Usually factory fitted standard items which are not part of an options list are in the calculation. Safety items don't usually increase a policy, not having them may do.

Knowing the underwriter isn't going to help you much as you won't be able to ask them directly, and there is no government agency to ask. It is entirely down to the underwriter as to what information they use as parameters to calculate the policy price, provided they do not break any discrimination laws.

Who is the insurer (not the underwriter) as there have been a few who have recently been trying to find reasons to increase the premium post the policy being taken out.

squirrelpie

Yes, most often used when parking. Your assessment of the situation sounds like mine. I'd still like to know who the underwriters are though, since the insurer uses them as an excuse for not answering.

The insurer is LV=

DullGreyGuy

squirrelpie said:

Yes, most often used when parking. Your assessment of the situation sounds like mine. I'd still like to know who the underwriters are though, since the insurer uses them as an excuse for not answering.

The insurer is LV=

LV= are a direct insurer and so the underwriter is also LV=... it wont literally be Bob in Motor Underwriting is asking a question unless its exceptional circumstances and in most of those cases they'd more likely decline to quote and let you go to a specialist. Mass market consumer insurance is priced by algorithms not by underwriters or actuaries on a case by case basis.

An insurer is free to ask what questions it wants and price as it sees fit (ignoring items like race or sexual orientation etc). The majority of insurers only ask about post production changes to a vehicle but there are exceptions and most notably Admiral Group ask for any optional extras included in production (and then dont insurer them). Havent heard of LV asking about reversing cameras but ultimately if their data analysis has shown a correlation between them and claims experience thats strong enough to justify the extra call centre time etc then they are free to do so just as you are free to go to another entity that doesnt ask the question. 

UW's are blamed for a lot more than they are responsible for... historically pricing statisticians/actuaries were more involved in these things than UWs and these days with AI/ML there are  bots starting to do dynamic pricing and looking for correlations between other possible factors and claims. Years back I remember our pricing analysts wanting to look at vehicle colour but whilst the DVLA feed returns the colour in the quote process we hadn't historically stored it to be able to do the analysis. 

squirrelpie

DullGreyGuy said:

An insurer is free to ask what questions it wants and price as it sees fit (ignoring items like race or sexual orientation etc).

The issue is that they quoted and then increased the price after asking the quesation to which they already knew the answer.

DullGreyGuy said:

The majority of insurers only ask about post production changes to a vehicle but there are exceptions and most notably Admiral Group ask for any optional extras included in production (and then dont insurer them).

Again, they're not optional, they're standard.

DullGreyGuy said:

Havent heard of LV asking about reversing cameras

Again, it's not the camera it's the sensors.

DullGreyGuy

squirrelpie said:

DullGreyGuy said:

An insurer is free to ask what questions it wants and price as it sees fit (ignoring items like race or sexual orientation etc).

The issue is that they quoted and then increased the price after asking the quesation to which they already knew the answer.

How do they already know the answer? 

If you mean they are standard fit and therefore they could know the answer or find out the answer themselves if they wanted to that is different from definitively knowing the answer. Insurers dont maintain databases of every feature of every car in every year.  In most cases this only becomes relevant at point of claim and its at that point the engineer will double check if the tinted windows or lowered suspension was standard in 2013 or an optional extra or after market

squirrelpie said:

DullGreyGuy said:

The majority of insurers only ask about post production changes to a vehicle but there are exceptions and most notably Admiral Group ask for any optional extras included in production (and then dont insurer them).

Again, they're not optional, they're standard.

Again, it doesnt matter, insurers are free to ask what they want... they could ask how many stitches per inch were used on your front seats if they wanted however most potential customers wont know and so wouldnt be able to complete a quote and so they'd lose business. 

There is always a tension between getting the most accurate information about the insured risk to more accurately price it and both increasing operational costs by having to ask 10,000 questions or losing the opportunity to quote as people get bored and move on. 

Wonka_2

Depending on the age/model of the car there have been many situations over the past couple of years where delivered spec differs (sometimes significantly) from order/brochure spec - from my experience Minis delivered with different dashboards/entertainment systems which could impact on repair costs and therefore be in an insurers interests to know.

In your case they may be aware that your model with reversing sensors costs much more to repair (or even that with delay of parts repair is not feasible) than a non-parking sensor one and that some cars of the same model/badge were delivered with/without despite it showing as 'standard'