Eviction URGENT

sassy_one

Hi

Need some advice.

Situation -

Tenants have been renting now for 4 years, no faults or issues.

Rent paid on time etc. 

However, landlord at the start of tenancy issued a notice stating it was previously their own and they may wish to move back in.

Fast forward to October 2022 landlord has stated they wish to sale the address and want tenants to move out.

In November tenants began looking for places but due to illness and disability and receiving UC cannot find anywhere suitable or willing to rent.

Mid November landlord explains they've removed the deposit from protection and are returning it to tenant along with reference stating tenant paid on time every time.

Landlord calls and states do not pay anymore rent now until you leave (its Wales so new contract rules have started) and to pay on day they leave.

They've not found anywhere and they've told the landlord this week that, and they've been told by council to stay put.

Landlord will now evict them I'm guessing but concern is what if they go for section 8 rent arrears, will the council see them as intentionally homeless? They haven't been eating properly and are in serious debt so possibly could argue they couldn't afford the rent but landlord verbally stated to them both not to pay anymore until they leave.
They tried paying the rent last week as per advice but the digital account which was used is now closed!

Concerns are council will say you've made yourself homeless due to not paying but landlord already issued deposit refund and references which are glowing! Keeping it mind the landlord wants to sale and the notice at the start which was issued.

Please advise as they need help fast!

_Penny_Dreadful

What evidence do the tenants have that the landlord asked them to stop paying rent?  Has the landlord given any indication that he will go for a Section 8 based on arrears, is it even a Section 8 he would use if there is a new rental contract in place as a Section 8 is for AST not whatever it is the Welsh government introduced last month.

What have they been doing with the money they haven't been paying towards the rent?  Any chance they could use that money to offer another private landlord 6 months rent in advance?

sassy_one

Unfortunately no proof, this was done over coffee when landlord visited for the inspection and no written confirmation of this.

The landlord stated they'd return deposit and give references before leaving to help them find somewhere aswell as using the money for the last few months for that too, paying it when they leave.

They've offered 6 months upfront but everywhere wants credit checks etc and they are in huge debt.
They've been paying £400 a month on top of the LHA rate last 4 years so have racked up huge credit debts on cards loans etc paying this.

Not sure what ground landlord will use that's the concern. 
My thought was if they go for Section 8 and tenant pays the arrears they will cancel eviction and that's not what landlord wants but wants them out to sale the place.
They have put up with estate agents viewing too.

Not even sure if sec 8 if valid in Wales anymore but the tenancy was started as an assured shorthold.

The major concern is council could say intentionally homeless if landlord uses Section 8 

_Penny_Dreadful

Even if the tenancy started as an AST as of 1st December 2022 it will have become an occupation contract.  I think rather than Section 21 and Section 8 notices the landlord now has to serve a possession notice.  It's all new so maybe the landlord hasn't figured out all the changes which will buy them so more time.

They appear to have already been in contact with the council since the council advised them to stay put so I suggest they go back to the council and talk to them and/or contact Shelter Cymru for advice.  Even when tenants have been evicted to arrears council's don't automatically assume they tenants have intentionally made themselves homeless.

sassy_one

Council have advised them until they get a notice they can't even register as homeless, so any further support is limited to them.

Will inform to contact them again though.

I have tried looking up but the AST went rolling after 2021, Will that have automatically gone to a contract under the new Wales act?

I have been reading horror stories online that if tenants are evicted for rent arrears and were paid a LHA then they could be seen intentionally homeless- I accept the could.

The whole new Wales act makes finding anything harder as most of the advice online is for the previous legislation 

_Penny_Dreadful

Yes, in their infinite wisdom the Welsh government decided to move everyone on to these new contracts 1st December 2022 rather than just making it for new tenancies.  It has caused mayhem and I think Rent Smart Wales has imploded.

sassy_one

Think they council must be slightly behind too then as they've been using the Sec 21 and 8 terms 🙄 

I think any notices will be sent this week as landlord now knows they've not found anywhere and have been told to sit, but landlord is absolutely hell pushed on wanting to sale ASAP.

I'm guessing the previous notice issued to them under the AST at time of it starting, where landlord stated they may wish to gain re possession to live in the address again is now invalid? Or I guess as this new act has come in we don't even know that answer 

propertyrental

Rent arrears are rent arrears.

I'm not familiar (is anyone?) with the new Welsh laws, but if there's no evidence of an agreement regarding witholding rent, then whatever the LL's original purpose (being helpful? planning for later eviction?) the arrears cpuld well come back to bite the tenant.

Pay the rent. If the agreement had not been made the T would have had to pay, so where has that money gone? Hopefully it's been wisely set aside.......

is rent paid direct to the LL, or to an agent? Don't pay cash unless the LL/agent gives a receipt, so either band transfer ( though you say "digital account which was used is now closed!" so the next option is to send a cheque to the LL. Whether he cashes it is not the T's concern so long as he has evidence of sending the cheque.

deannagone

As already explained, the council should investigate why the arrears happened.  The tenants need to have records of all their finances, debts, rent payments etc ready for when they go to register as homeless.  Any consultant reports should be to hand as well (I was able to avoid being placed in single room accommodation because I did this).

saajan_12

sassy_one said:

Hi

Need some advice.

Situation -

Tenants have been renting now for 4 years, no faults or issues.

Rent paid on time etc. 

However, landlord at the start of tenancy issued a notice stating it was previously their own and they may wish to move back in. - okay, but irrelevant if they're evicting to sell not move in surely?

Fast forward to October 2022 landlord has stated they wish to sale the address and want tenants to move out.

In November tenants began looking for places but due to illness and disability and receiving UC cannot find anywhere suitable or willing to rent.

Mid November landlord explains they've removed the deposit from protection and are returning it to tenant along with reference stating tenant paid on time every time. - so did the LL pay this deposit back? They can't remove from protection and just say they will pay it before move out. 

Landlord calls and states do not pay anymore rent now until you leave (its Wales so new contract rules have started) and to pay on day they leave. - and tenant got that in writing right..? If not, then unwise to stop paying and risk being in breach of the last provable agreement ie to pay rent. So either get it now or if the LL refuses then pay the rent. 

They've not found anywhere and they've told the landlord this week that, and they've been told by council to stay put.

Landlord will now evict them I'm guessing but concern is what if they go for section 8 rent arrears, will the council see them as intentionally homeless? They haven't been eating properly and are in serious debt so possibly could argue they couldn't afford the rent but landlord verbally stated to them both not to pay anymore until they leave. - but they've been saving the rent for the last few months.. where has that gone? Hopefully either set aside or paying down debts or funding hte food bill.. 
They tried paying the rent last week as per advice but the digital account which was used is now closed! - then send a cheque or set aside the rent and write to the LL asking what account to pay rent. 

Concerns are council will say you've made yourself homeless due to not paying but landlord already issued deposit refund and references which are glowing! Keeping it mind the landlord wants to sale and the notice at the start which was issued. - references etc are irrelevant if they fail the rest of the credit checks. 

Please advise as they need help fast!

Where has the saved rent and returned deposit money gone? Have they also been receiving the LHA portion and not paying the LL, or has that paid partial rent? 
Without something in writing that the rent due was now £0, they should have continued to pay or at least set the rent aside, ready to pay. 

Can't have it both ways ie not pay (back) rent but also complain that T can't pay rent as a defense against intentional homelessness. If the property was unaffordable long ago, then they should have looked into downsizing / council accommodation / etc earlier before the poor credit.