Refund deducting more than delivery fee.

HillStreetBlues

ThumbRemote said:

If the trader claims this then they are breaking the law. 

Statutory rights cannot be affected. The trader cannot make a customer cancel under their own terms when those terms are worse than the law. Attempting to deny statutory rights is illegal. 

The OP did not have to inform the trader that they were cancelling under specific legislation, they only had to inform the trader that they were cancelling. CCR section 32: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/32/made simply says "make any other clear statement setting out the decision to cancel the contract."

This is a very simple case. LazyWhippet has cancelled the contract and returned the goods. They are entitled to a full refund, including original postage paid. 

Which the OP didn't do, hence my post.

EDIT  I do agree you can just state cancel.

LazyWhippet

By asking to return the product, does that constitute to cancelling?

I’ve never known to ask to ‘cancel’ before when requesting a return. I don’t think your average consumer would use that terminology. 

HillStreetBlues

LazyWhippet said:

By asking to return the product, does that constitute to cancelling?

I’ve never known to ask to ‘cancel’ before when requesting a return. I don’t think your average consumer would use that terminology. 

I agree most won't know to say "I want to cancel"  but the CCR  does state you can cancel the contract within 14 days.

AFAIK  the retailer doesn't have to ask or assume you want to cancel the contract.
So unless you say " i want to cancel"  you aren't invoking your rights under that area of CCR

HillStreetBlues

Personally I do think saying I want to return item should be enough as that that show's intent that the person no longer wants the goods and wants to cancel.. But  the wording of CCR  says you need to make it clear you want to cancel, and just saying "return" can be classed as ambiguous

Manxman_in_exile

ThumbRemote said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

It's always advisable to tell them explicitly that you are cancelling under the CCRs  -  if that is what you are doing  -  otherwise the trader may argue that as far as they were concerned you were cancelling under the terms of their own returns policy and not as per the statute.

HillStreetBlues said:

It does look like they think you returned it under their T&Cs

If the trader claims this then they are breaking the law. 

Statutory rights cannot be affected. The trader cannot make a customer cancel under their own terms when those terms are worse than the law. Attempting to deny statutory rights is illegal. 

The OP did not have to inform the trader that they were cancelling under specific legislation, they only had to inform the trader that they were cancelling. CCR section 32: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/32/made simply says "make any other clear statement setting out the decision to cancel the contract."

This is a very simple case. LazyWhippet has cancelled the contract and returned the goods. They are entitled to a full refund, including original postage paid. 

It's probably pointless arguing the toss, but what I was trying to find out from the OP was whether they had actually told the trader they were cancelling the contract, so I asked them whether they had done so. 

The OP hasn't confirmed that they did.  On the contrary, they say that they simply told the trader that they "wanted to return the product".

As I understand the regulations, in order to cancel a contract a consumer must tell the trader that that is what they are doing, either by using a form similar to the model form in the regs, or by making any other clear statement setting out their decision to cancel the contract.  It might not be strictly necessary when doing this to make specific reference to the regs, but I think that doing so is common sense, does no harm, and probably lessens the possibility of confusion with a trader's own returns policy.

While I can appreciate that some people might consider that just telling a trader that you want to return something is the same as telling them that you are cancelling it, I'm not convinced that it actually is the same or that it necessarily satisfies the requirements of the regs.

My advice to anyone wanting to exercise their statutory right to cancel a distance sale and who also wants to keep it as simple and as straightforward as possible, is to specifically tell the trader that they are cancelling under the regs and not just tell them - as in the words of this OP -  that they "want to return the product".

If you don't make that clear then you run the risk of the trader (or more likely their non-legally trained CS staff) getting confused between the terms of their own returns policy and the consumer's statutory rights.  (As happened in this thread with a £390 perfume return to Harrods:  Harrods Online Refund Policy and lack of online upfront transparency. — MoneySavingExpert Forum

To me it makes sense to be upfront from the outset and to leave the trader in absolutely no doubt what you are doing.  You don't tell them that "I want to return the product" as if you were asking a favour, you tell them you are cancelling the contract, and that you are doing it under the regs.

HillStreetBlues

If we put aside that part of the CCR issue for the other question

Does anyone think the company can deduct money from the item price to cover extra postal costs?/

I think there shouldn't be any deduction and refunded full item price.

LazyWhippet

HillStreetBlues said:

If we put aside that part of the CCR issue for the other question

Does anyone think the company can deduct money from the item price to cover extra postal costs?/

I think there shouldn't be any deduction and refunded full item price.

This is my main concern, they shouldn’t be able to charge the couriers fee back to me when I was charged £20 less when ordering. They are saying it’s a ‘subsidised’ fee. Never heard of this before - it should come out of their pocket, not mine. 

Manxman_in_exile

LazyWhippet said:

By asking to return the product, does that constitute to cancelling?

I’ve never known to ask to ‘cancel’ before when requesting a return. I don’t think your average consumer would use that terminology. 

HillStreetBlues said:

LazyWhippet said:

By asking to return the product, does that constitute to cancelling?

I’ve never known to ask to ‘cancel’ before when requesting a return. I don’t think your average consumer would use that terminology. 

I agree most won't know to say "I want to cancel"  but the CCR  does state you can cancel the contract within 14 days.

AFAIK  the retailer doesn't have to ask or assume you want to cancel the contract.
So unless you say " i want to cancel"  you aren't invoking your rights under that area of CCR

I agree that most people will not know to tell the trader that they are cancelling, and most people will think that just saying "I am returning this item for a refund" should be sufficient*.

I used to think that as well, but since reading many threads on these pages about people having tremendous difficulty getting refunds they are entitled to, I would now advise everybody to clearly tell a trader from the outset that they are exercising their right to cancel under s29 The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk).

The only exception to this would be if a trader's own returns policy gave you better rights (eg a longer cancellation and/or return period) than under the regulations, in which case you would make it clear that you were returning under their own policy, and not under the regs.

It's also quite clear to me that some traders (whether from legal ignorance or sheer dishonesty) do fob consumers off  by treating some returns as being under their own policy rather than under the regulations, and many consumers fall for it because they don't know any better.  Again a good reason to make it absolutely clear when cancelling a distance contrcat that you are doing so under the regs. and not under the trader's own policy.


*Strictly speaking it can't be sufficient as the regs specifically state that a consumer must tell the trader that they are cancelling, not just retruning the goods.

Manxman_in_exile

HillStreetBlues said:

If we put aside that part of the CCR issue for the other question

Does anyone think the company can deduct money from the item price to cover extra postal costs?/

I think there shouldn't be any deduction and refunded full item price.

There shouldn't be any deduction unless the OP opted for a more costly method of delivery for their original order

sheramber

Just to clarify.

You returned in person- to a store?

Did you order online or buy in store with home delivery?