Help with wayfair closing my account with an active balance

sheramber

HillStreetBlues said:

tightauldgit said:

Yeah but the issue here is they HAVEN'T taken away the balance. The balance is still there on the gift card. It's just that wayfair apparently won't let them place any orders whatsoever. 

If you have a £250 gift card to use in the pub but they bar you from the pub do they have to refund your gift card - I'm not convinced they would. That's why I'm saying it might well be that they haven't broken any rules, it's just potentially one of those annoying cracks.

They can't not honour the gift card (buy refusing a purchase) and refuse a refund, that would be clearly unfair.
They will have to do one or the other.

But how does the OP get that resolved?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

tightauldgit said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

tightauldgit said:

... I suspect as unreasonable as it seems that you might just be caught in a bit of a trap legally on this one...

... 2. They've probably complied with all the T&Cs on the gift card...

I know what you mean, but I find it hard to believe that the law would consider fair any term that allowed a trader arbitrarily to take away a balance from a consumer's gift card if the consumer had paid good value for it.  I would have said that any term that allowed a trader to do that was blatantly unfair under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

The fact that Wayfair might be entitled to close the consumer's account for other reasons not connected with the gift card* doesn't mean they can just pinch an existing balance on there that the consumer has already paid good value for.

(As an aside, I often wonder if the law would consider the time limit/expiry date imposed on gift cards etc to be fair).


*In this particular case it's not clear to me if Wayfair might have closed the OP's account because of some question marks over the use of the gift card?

Yeah but the issue here is they HAVEN'T taken away the balance. The balance is still there on the gift card. It's just that wayfair apparently won't let them place any orders whatsoever. 

If you have a £250 gift card to use in the pub but they bar you from the pub do they have to refund your gift card - I'm not convinced they would. That's why I'm saying it might well be that they haven't broken any rules, it's just potentially one of those annoying cracks.

Seems very open to abuse, if would be ok to do what is to stop any company from “barring” customers who have high gift card balances solely to keep the gift card money?

HillStreetBlues

sheramber said:

HillStreetBlues said:

tightauldgit said:

Yeah but the issue here is they HAVEN'T taken away the balance. The balance is still there on the gift card. It's just that wayfair apparently won't let them place any orders whatsoever. 

If you have a £250 gift card to use in the pub but they bar you from the pub do they have to refund your gift card - I'm not convinced they would. That's why I'm saying it might well be that they haven't broken any rules, it's just potentially one of those annoying cracks.

They can't not honour the gift card (buy refusing a purchase) and refuse a refund, that would be clearly unfair.
They will have to do one or the other.

But how does the OP get that resolved?

Small Claims using Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/1277/regulation/6/made

6.—(1) A commercial practice is a misleading omission if, in its factual context, taking account of the matters in paragraph (2)—

(a)the commercial practice omits material information,

(b)the commercial practice hides material information,

(c)the commercial practice provides material information in a manner which is unclear, unintelligible, ambiguous or untimely, or

(d)the commercial practice fails to identify its commercial intent, unless this is already apparent from the context,

and as a result it causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.

Wayfair hid /omitted  that the voucher couldn't be used to buy anything on their account
If Wayfair had informed the OP that this was the case, the OP wouldn't have enter into the transaction of using the gift card.

born_again

tightauldgit said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

tightauldgit said:

... I suspect as unreasonable as it seems that you might just be caught in a bit of a trap legally on this one...

... 2. They've probably complied with all the T&Cs on the gift card...

I know what you mean, but I find it hard to believe that the law would consider fair any term that allowed a trader arbitrarily to take away a balance from a consumer's gift card if the consumer had paid good value for it.  I would have said that any term that allowed a trader to do that was blatantly unfair under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

The fact that Wayfair might be entitled to close the consumer's account for other reasons not connected with the gift card* doesn't mean they can just pinch an existing balance on there that the consumer has already paid good value for.

(As an aside, I often wonder if the law would consider the time limit/expiry date imposed on gift cards etc to be fair).


*In this particular case it's not clear to me if Wayfair might have closed the OP's account because of some question marks over the use of the gift card?

Yeah but the issue here is they HAVEN'T taken away the balance. The balance is still there on the gift card. It's just that wayfair apparently won't let them place any orders whatsoever. 

If you have a £250 gift card to use in the pub but they bar you from the pub do they have to refund your gift card - I'm not convinced they would. That's why I'm saying it might well be that they haven't broken any rules, it's just potentially one of those annoying cracks.

Read the OP

>>This was all fine, I bought a wayfair voucher for £250 which was in my account however after trying to purchase an item recently they immediately canceled the order and sent me this email.<<

The balance is sat as a credit in the Wayfair account..

tightauldgit

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

tightauldgit said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

tightauldgit said:

... I suspect as unreasonable as it seems that you might just be caught in a bit of a trap legally on this one...

... 2. They've probably complied with all the T&Cs on the gift card...

I know what you mean, but I find it hard to believe that the law would consider fair any term that allowed a trader arbitrarily to take away a balance from a consumer's gift card if the consumer had paid good value for it.  I would have said that any term that allowed a trader to do that was blatantly unfair under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

The fact that Wayfair might be entitled to close the consumer's account for other reasons not connected with the gift card* doesn't mean they can just pinch an existing balance on there that the consumer has already paid good value for.

(As an aside, I often wonder if the law would consider the time limit/expiry date imposed on gift cards etc to be fair).


*In this particular case it's not clear to me if Wayfair might have closed the OP's account because of some question marks over the use of the gift card?

Yeah but the issue here is they HAVEN'T taken away the balance. The balance is still there on the gift card. It's just that wayfair apparently won't let them place any orders whatsoever. 

If you have a £250 gift card to use in the pub but they bar you from the pub do they have to refund your gift card - I'm not convinced they would. That's why I'm saying it might well be that they haven't broken any rules, it's just potentially one of those annoying cracks.

Seems very open to abuse, if would be ok to do what is to stop any company from “barring” customers who have high gift card balances solely to keep the gift card money?

Potentially nothing? I'm really not sure, which is why I asked the hypothetical. Presumably if you could show a court that on the balance of probabilities the reason why they barred you is to stop you using your gift card you MIGHT have a case but if they barred you because you got in an argument with the landlord then I don't see that they would necessarily have done anything wrong. 

tightauldgit

born_again said:

tightauldgit said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

tightauldgit said:

... I suspect as unreasonable as it seems that you might just be caught in a bit of a trap legally on this one...

... 2. They've probably complied with all the T&Cs on the gift card...

I know what you mean, but I find it hard to believe that the law would consider fair any term that allowed a trader arbitrarily to take away a balance from a consumer's gift card if the consumer had paid good value for it.  I would have said that any term that allowed a trader to do that was blatantly unfair under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

The fact that Wayfair might be entitled to close the consumer's account for other reasons not connected with the gift card* doesn't mean they can just pinch an existing balance on there that the consumer has already paid good value for.

(As an aside, I often wonder if the law would consider the time limit/expiry date imposed on gift cards etc to be fair).


*In this particular case it's not clear to me if Wayfair might have closed the OP's account because of some question marks over the use of the gift card?

Yeah but the issue here is they HAVEN'T taken away the balance. The balance is still there on the gift card. It's just that wayfair apparently won't let them place any orders whatsoever. 

If you have a £250 gift card to use in the pub but they bar you from the pub do they have to refund your gift card - I'm not convinced they would. That's why I'm saying it might well be that they haven't broken any rules, it's just potentially one of those annoying cracks.

Read the OP

>>This was all fine, I bought a wayfair voucher for £250 which was in my account however after trying to purchase an item recently they immediately canceled the order and sent me this email.<<

The balance is sat as a credit in the Wayfair account..

So we agree that the balance is still there and wayfair haven't taken it away from the OP? That's my point - they've probably complied with the T&Cs of the gift card purchase. The balance hasn't been removed it's just stuck in limbo. They haven't taken the money away. They've taken away access to the route to spend the balance. Which they also seem to have done in compliance with the terms of that arrangement. 

Does it seem wrong that they can do that? Absolutely. 

Does it necessarily mean what they've done is illegal? I'm really not so sure. 

tightauldgit

HillStreetBlues said:

sheramber said:

HillStreetBlues said:

tightauldgit said:

Yeah but the issue here is they HAVEN'T taken away the balance. The balance is still there on the gift card. It's just that wayfair apparently won't let them place any orders whatsoever. 

If you have a £250 gift card to use in the pub but they bar you from the pub do they have to refund your gift card - I'm not convinced they would. That's why I'm saying it might well be that they haven't broken any rules, it's just potentially one of those annoying cracks.

They can't not honour the gift card (buy refusing a purchase) and refuse a refund, that would be clearly unfair.
They will have to do one or the other.

But how does the OP get that resolved?

Small Claims using Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/1277/regulation/6/made

6.—(1) A commercial practice is a misleading omission if, in its factual context, taking account of the matters in paragraph (2)—

(a)the commercial practice omits material information,

(b)the commercial practice hides material information,

(c)the commercial practice provides material information in a manner which is unclear, unintelligible, ambiguous or untimely, or

(d)the commercial practice fails to identify its commercial intent, unless this is already apparent from the context,

and as a result it causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.

Wayfair hid /omitted  that the voucher couldn't be used to buy anything on their account
If Wayfair had informed the OP that this was the case, the OP wouldn't have enter into the transaction of using the gift card.

Feels like a stretch to be honest. 

One thing of relevance which I'm not clear on is the status of the account at the time the gift card was purchased - if the GC was purchased BEFORE the account was closed then you can't say anything was hidden at the time of purchase. Even if not I assume the T&Cs of the gift card probably say something like 'can only be used on wayfair.com and requires an account with wayfair.com' 

I'm not defending wayfair here - I think they are playing silly buggers. At the very least I would think they should either allow the GC to be used, or at least give them a £250 GC they can give to someone else to use or sell on. I'm just interested in the minutiae of the legal ins and outs. 

Stuff like this is why I just think GCs are the worst thing ever invented. 

born_again

tightauldgit said:

born_again said:

tightauldgit said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

tightauldgit said:

... I suspect as unreasonable as it seems that you might just be caught in a bit of a trap legally on this one...

... 2. They've probably complied with all the T&Cs on the gift card...

I know what you mean, but I find it hard to believe that the law would consider fair any term that allowed a trader arbitrarily to take away a balance from a consumer's gift card if the consumer had paid good value for it.  I would have said that any term that allowed a trader to do that was blatantly unfair under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

The fact that Wayfair might be entitled to close the consumer's account for other reasons not connected with the gift card* doesn't mean they can just pinch an existing balance on there that the consumer has already paid good value for.

(As an aside, I often wonder if the law would consider the time limit/expiry date imposed on gift cards etc to be fair).


*In this particular case it's not clear to me if Wayfair might have closed the OP's account because of some question marks over the use of the gift card?

Yeah but the issue here is they HAVEN'T taken away the balance. The balance is still there on the gift card. It's just that wayfair apparently won't let them place any orders whatsoever. 

If you have a £250 gift card to use in the pub but they bar you from the pub do they have to refund your gift card - I'm not convinced they would. That's why I'm saying it might well be that they haven't broken any rules, it's just potentially one of those annoying cracks.

Read the OP

>>This was all fine, I bought a wayfair voucher for £250 which was in my account however after trying to purchase an item recently they immediately canceled the order and sent me this email.<<

The balance is sat as a credit in the Wayfair account..

So we agree that the balance is still there and wayfair haven't taken it away from the OP? That's my point - they've probably complied with the T&Cs of the gift card purchase. The balance hasn't been removed it's just stuck in limbo. They haven't taken the money away. They've taken away access to the route to spend the balance. Which they also seem to have done in compliance with the terms of that arrangement. 

Does it seem wrong that they can do that? Absolutely. 

Does it necessarily mean what they've done is illegal? I'm really not so sure. 

You said it was on the gift card
>Yeah but the issue here is they HAVEN'T taken away the balance. The balance is still there on the gift card. <

The balance is NOT on the gift card. It is sat in the Wayfair account. Which is totally different. Balance on gift card means it has not been redeemed & OP would be able to pass card to someone else to spend.

Can they do what they are doing?
Only one way to find out. Take then to court.

Alderbank

born_again said:

Can they do what they are doing?
Only one way to find out. Take then to court.

This is getting interesting.

Tort of Conversion.
Conversion is a tort of strict liability where the defendant is detaining goods in the face of an unjustified refusal to deliver up the goods after a demand is made.
Actions for conversion are usually prefaced by an unconditional demand for the delivery - the return - of the relevant goods. 'Give me my money back now, Wayfair!'

Popcorn time