Worktop not fit for purpose

lythamrebel

Hi, I bought a pretty expensive kitchen from Howdens and am generally happy, certainly with the cabinets; however, the worktop, which is a plain white laminate, is just awful and I feel that it is not really fit for purpose, but am not sure of my rights... When I picked it out, the sales guy made no mention of the possible issues with it and I do feel he could at the very least have warned me! I might then have contemplated a different option (even of quartz, when you take off the cost of fitting and refitting, it might not be much more!); the look of it is fine BUT whatever you put on it, it seems to mark and cannot just be wiped off! I do not mean it is as bad as what we had years ago, when you had to get the bleach out to get out tea and coffee stains, but rather a) finger marks and b) things like, for example, if I happen to do some washing up by hand and I put a (cold) pot down on it, or say a coloured packet of food or I have a big chrome pot containing lots of my utensils and that marks, or even when I open the door to the air fryer and it lands temporarily on the worktop!! It is just as well I no longer have young kids, but I feel that the quality really is unacceptable! Whenever it makes these marks, the ONLY way to get them out is to use the Pink Stuff on a cloth - surely this is not normal and/or to be expected and therefore NOT fit for purpose??? Can anyone confirm what my rights are at all? I actually feel that Howdens should not even be selling this kind of poor-quality worktop - I dread to think what will happen for an unknowing family with kids...!

TadleyBaggie

I thought Howdens was trade-only, so would have been a business transaction. In which case you have no consumer rights.

Edit: Seems they now do deal with consumers, news to me. 

You say you picked it out, suggesting there was no recommendation from the sales person?

pinkshoes

lythamrebel said:

Hi, I bought a pretty expensive kitchen from Howdens and am generally happy, certainly with the cabinets; however, the worktop, which is a plain white laminate, is just awful and I feel that it is not really fit for purpose, but am not sure of my rights... When I picked it out, the sales guy made no mention of the possible issues with it and I do feel he could at the very least have warned me! I might then have contemplated a different option (even of quartz, when you take off the cost of fitting and refitting, it might not be much more!); the look of it is fine BUT whatever you put on it, it seems to mark and cannot just be wiped off! I do not mean it is as bad as what we had years ago, when you had to get the bleach out to get out tea and coffee stains, but rather a) finger marks and b) things like, for example, if I happen to do some washing up by hand and I put a (cold) pot down on it, or say a coloured packet of food or I have a big chrome pot containing lots of my utensils and that marks, or even when I open the door to the air fryer and it lands temporarily on the worktop!! It is just as well I no longer have young kids, but I feel that the quality really is unacceptable! Whenever it makes these marks, the ONLY way to get them out is to use the Pink Stuff on a cloth - surely this is not normal and/or to be expected and therefore NOT fit for purpose??? Can anyone confirm what my rights are at all? I actually feel that Howdens should not even be selling this kind of poor-quality worktop - I dread to think what will happen for an unknowing family with kids...!

It's a WHITE laminate worktop in a kitchen... That's why most worktops have speckles in them or are darker colours to hide all the marks. They all mark - you just can't see it on coloured ones!

Exactly the same reason why I don't wear white jeans - I can't even get down the stairs without a mark appearing. 

I'm assuming you chose to have white? In which case, you'll need to pay to have another one fitted, or indeed get quartz. 

(I have a white but slightly speckled worktop in quartz - it does show lots of marks but is easy to wipe!)

HillStreetBlues

lythamrebel said:

Hi, I bought a pretty expensive kitchen from Howdens

When?

The colour wouldn't be the  issue as (it's what you chose)  but the issue could be having to use a harsh cleaner on a new laminate just to get it clean.

lythamrebel

Thank you HillStreetBlues - exactly what I thought when I read the rather judgemental message from pinkshoes... I might choose to wear white jeans, in the knowledge that I can wash them where necessary! And yes I would definitely check they are washable! I agree with you, it is surely not acceptable to have to use a harsh cleaner every single time there is a mark. I understand white is not always the best, and based my choice on the fact that I live alone and have no little kids around... I bought the kitchen a couple of months ago... I have already mentioned my concerns to the sales guy but got merely a vague response, pointing to the fact that builders will leave finger marks - yes, they do, but it still continues to this day, thankfully not quite as much now the builders have gone. I am not dead set on it being replaced, but am interested in whether it would be considered to be not satisfactory for use, and am definitely concerned for other people buying it! I may have to view it as a loss and caveat emptor, but it would be good to know....If there is a chance of pursuing it, I would not hesitate... Thank you...

Alderbank

I'm sorry you don't like your new kitchen worktops.

You ask whether they are fit for purpose and whether they are satisfactory for use?

There are independent standards for laminate kitchen worktops. BS 6222 covers Domestic Kitchen Equipment and includes worktops. These are not Howdens' in-house tests, they are independently produced by the British Standards Institute.

These include resistance to marking by a range of substances including tea, coffee, blackcurrant juice and a range of oils.

Howdens claim that all their laminate worktops, not just white ones, comply with BS 6222.

For you to make a successful claim you would have to show that either BS 6222 is not appropriate for kitchen worktops or show that the worktop you have does not meet BS 6222.

In the test, each substance is left on the worktop for 1 hour then wiped off with a cloth. I note you have been rubbing the surface with Pink Stuff which is an abrasive cleaner. Using an abrasive cleaner can make subsequent stains harder to remove.

Did Howdens give any instructions for safe use with the worktops? Did they perhaps say something like 'clean spills promptly with a clean damp cloth. Do not use abrasive cleaners'?

diystarter7

Alderbank said:

I'm sorry you don't like your new kitchen worktops.

You ask whether they are fit for purpose and whether they are satisfactory for use?

There are independent standards for laminate kitchen worktops. BS 6222 covers Domestic Kitchen Equipment and includes worktops. These are not Howdens' in-house tests, they are independently produced by the British Standards Institute.

These include resistance to marking by a range of substances including tea, coffee, blackcurrant juice and a range of oils.

Howdens claim that all their laminate worktops, not just white ones, comply with BS 6222.

For you to make a successful claim you would have to show that either BS 6222 is not appropriate for kitchen worktops or show that the worktop you have does not meet BS 6222.

In the test, each substance is left on the worktop for 1 hour then wiped off with a cloth. I note you have been rubbing the surface with Pink Stuff which is an abrasive cleaner. Using an abrasive cleaner can make subsequent stains harder to remove.

Did Howdens give any instructions for safe use with the worktops? Did they perhaps say something like 'clean spills promptly with a clean damp cloth. Do not use abrasive cleaners'?

Hi

Great post

Often the kitchen designer will tell you and there is often instructions with the  laminates

Laminates need to be really looked after and white ones, even more so.

Thanks

lythamrebel

Hi Alderbank, very many thanks indeed for your post, I will check on what the standard specifies - unfortunately, I have had to use the abrasive cleaner, as the marks do not just wipe off with a cloth, even straight away! And no, they did not provide any instructions - they supplied a laminate top cleaner, which did not work - even the builder was surprised, he says he has never seen a worktop like it! I certainly do not like using this cleaner, but feel I have no option/alternative....

TELLIT01

We have 3 of these https://www.lakeland.co.uk/73211/joseph-joseph-clear-glass-worktop-saver-medium which we stand anything hot on, despite the worktops being 'heat resistant'.  That's too vague for my liking.

lythamrebel

Just an update... I have been in touch with Citizens Advice, they tell me the worktop is definitely not of satisfactory purpose or fit for purpose in that in no way should I have to use even a mildly abrasive cleaner. I am not going to go in all guns blazing as it may just be a defective batch that Howdens are unaware of, so I shall be phoning them in the next couple of days and see what they say - will advise.

Aylesbury_Duck

lythamrebel said:

Just an update... I have been in touch with Citizens Advice, they tell me the worktop is definitely not of satisfactory purpose or fit for purpose in that in no way should I have to use even a mildly abrasive cleaner. I am not going to go in all guns blazing as it may just be a defective batch that Howdens are unaware of, so I shall be phoning them in the next couple of days and see what they say - will advise.

Good luck.  Don't get your hopes up on the strength of what CA have said.  I presume they haven't been out to see the worktop and of course they are volunteers with no particular subject knowledge (unless you get lucky with a kitchen worktop expert!).  Their opinion is of no more value to you than mine, for example.

As you say, it's best to tackle this constructively and see what Howdens do.  Be prepared for some pushback on the abrasive cleaner bit, that might give them an angle of defence.