Fibre or not fibre

MikeJXE

Hi,

Thank you for looking 

I was talking to an open reach engineer a couple of days ago working along the road from where I live. 

I was telling him how my internet drops out almost everyday, he said you should go Fibre and you wont get that problem.

I am with talk talk on Fibre 65 contract ends March but I am moving in February 

I have signed up with Virgin Fibre 125 as illustrated on MSE as a cheap deal.

I am not that clued up with cabling but I always assumed  Fibre was faster and more reliable than normal BT cables.

I spoke to the guy On virgin chat about this but didn't get an answer that satisfied me, he said we use our own cables and I already knew that

My question is, is there  fibre and is there fibre one better than the other or what ? 

I know there are some very smart people on here so Thank you so much in advance 

iniltous

The majority of Virgin isn’t ‘fibre’ it’s ‘cable’ ,  the same with Openreach, generally when the term ‘fibre’  is used , it’s fibre to the cabinet FTTC , both are  normally pretty good , providers that use Openreach and have access to Openreach FTTP ( fibre to the premises ) generally call those products ‘full fibre’ to differentiate FTTP from FTTC , but the much higher speeds ( higher than 80Mb ) can only be delivered by FTTP anyway  ( I’m ignoring Gfast which is similar FTTC but can give better speeds but isn’t very common ) 
OR also provide 40,55, and 80Mb speeds on FTTP if that’s what the ISP wants to provide it’s customer with, so just because someone has access to OR FTTP they don’t have to take 500 or 900Mb , but if they want those higher speeds they are available 

MikeJXE

Thank you  for your reply.

My contract with virgin states average speed between 132 and 136 with a minimum of 66 download speed.

I did notice the green BT cabinet is about 20m from my property if that makes any difference 

iniltous

If you were on TT 65Mb you were already on FTTC ( fibre ) so if the Openreach tech stated you would be better on ‘fibre’ either he wasn’t aware you were already on ‘fibre , albeit FTTC , or FTTP is available in your area and was suggesting that changing from FTTC to FTTP would provide a better service, but it’s all moot anyway , if you have already signed up with Virgin, which is a totally different and separate network from Openreach,
VM isn’t an open network available to other ISP like TT  , you can only have VM service on VM networks.
If you have access to Openreach FTTP as well as Openreach FTTC (  your TT service was FTTC) then the distance to the cabinet is irrelevant, FTTP doesn’t use the cabinet, and the speed purchased is the speed you get , there is no distance related reduction , but as it is , no one knows if you have access to FTTP as well as FTTC.

FYI, your VM service , will almost certainly not be FTTP , fibre right into your home , it will be similar to your TT service, in that the fibre goes to the Virgin cabinet , then it’s a copper cable into your home , it’s a coax cable rather than a copper pair cable , and the technology is different on VM , but it’s still a hybrid system, the same as the OR FTTC system you had with TT , but it is capable of higher speeds than OR FTTC .

TBH , if your TT service was dropping out all the time , you probably had a fault that needed reporting to TT so that any replacement or repair needed could be arranged, but if you have already signed up to VM , it’s irrelevant now.

RavingMad

I was getting drop outs with my broadband. Plusnet sent an engineer out and he said the phone cable on our 17 yr old estate was cheap tat. It was that brittle, it fell apart in his hands. I noticed I could get full fibre just before Xmas and got it booked in. New cable was run from a grid in the street and I'm getting 500mb now for the same price as I was paying for 67mb

HaroldWhistler

MikeJXE said:

Hi,

Thank you for looking 

I was talking to an open reach engineer a couple of days ago working along the road from where I live. 

I was telling him how my internet drops out almost everyday, he said you should go Fibre and you wont get that problem.

I am with talk talk on Fibre 65 contract ends March but I am moving in February 

I have signed up with Virgin Fibre 125 as illustrated on MSE as a cheap deal.

I am not that clued up with cabling but I always assumed  Fibre was faster and more reliable than normal BT cables.

I spoke to the guy On virgin chat about this but didn't get an answer that satisfied me, he said we use our own cables and I already knew that

My question is, is there  fibre and is there fibre one better than the other or what ? 

I know there are some very smart people on here so Thank you so much in advance 

The confusion is owing to the mis-marketing by many broadband providers over multiple years of Broadband from a Cabinet as "Fibre broadband". (And the regulators tolerating it). 

Many broadband packages have been sold under names such as "Fibre 50", "Superfast Fibre" etc. The product is actually not Fibre broadband in actuality. What happens is the Cabinet is connected to the national network/exchanges by optical fibre cabling. Various properties would then be connected to that Cabinet (which could be on a nearby street, or multiple miles away from the property) by existing copper cabling. 

Those products whilst marketed as "Fibre" are not actually fibre all the way to the property. Meaning that the speed, reliability, latency etc of the service the property receives is highly variable depending on factors such as distance from the Cabinet, weather, faulty or damaged overhead cables etc. Speed will already be lost in the distance from the Cabinet to the property considerably and Drop outs may occur given the unreliability of copper to deliver such speeds consistently over distance. They can be summed up by the term "Fibre to the Cabinet" (FTTC). 

What the Openreach engineer was referring to was proper Fibre. Often marketed now as "Full Fibre", or "Ultrafast broadband". This is you - the property - connected directly to the national network with optical Fibre cables running all the way to your home. The fibre cables are capable of transferring significantly higher speeds reliably over much vaster distances. They can be summed up by the term "Fibre to the Property" or "Fibre to the Home" (FTTP or FTTH). 

Broadband products that are "Full Fibre" will often therefore have a much higher reliability, a consistent speed delivered to the home that is "exactly what it says on the tin", and an offering of much higher speeds if you want it (on Openreach at present, you can order packages that deliver 900Mbps for instance and some alternative networks offer 10Gbps).

If you use the Broadband checker on any Broadband provider's website, it should usually show you what packages they can offer. (You can also check the Openreach Broadband checker to see if the property has a status of "FTTP is available"). If you see "Full Fibre" products, those would certainly be superior in quality than the FTTC products. There is more and more competition as the national rollout continues for FTTP products and it is the future in terms of the way the market is heading. So if you see a good price for "Full Fibre", it would certainly be a game changer and help you have stable broadband (and faster). Some providers also do fixed prices without CPI increases. There are also certain alternative networks (e.g. CityFibre, B4RN etc) that offer Full Fibre Broadband either directly or indirectly, though those tend to be more location specific at present. Personally I wouldn't be signing up for any long term FTTC products right now, let alone with in built CPI increases. Another option if FTTP isn't yet available is to temporarily use 4G based mobile broadband (using a hotspot) on a 30 day rolling contract with a network with good signal where you live. 

Hope that helps.
 

MikeJXE

Thank you for your reply yes it's all as clear as mud now.

The open-reach engineer I spoke to obviously thought I wasn't on fibre and neither did I till I checked, then after what he said I wondered why my system was continually dropping out.

Over the last few months it has gone down almost every single day, sometimes several times.  I have contacted sky many time who do a line test and say there appears to be a fault, that does get fixed and a couple of days later down it goes again. 

the reason I am switching is I got sick of it. It's not the speed I need as such as I don't do gaming or watch Netflix etc it's reliability I want.,

I am not 100% sure I have done the right thing going to virgin, their reviews on trust pilot don't look good, I have 14 days after their equipment is delivered on the 4th February to decide

Am I better to stay with the openreach system or virgin system ? 

Thank you 

JSmithy45AD

MikeJXE said:

Thank you for your reply yes it's all as clear as mud now.

The open-reach engineer I spoke to obviously thought I wasn't on fibre and neither did I till I checked, then after what he said I wondered why my system was continually dropping out.

Over the last few months it has gone down almost every single day, sometimes several times.  I have contacted sky many time who do a line test and say there appears to be a fault, that does get fixed and a couple of days later down it goes again. 

the reason I am switching is I got sick of it. It's not the speed I need as such as I don't do gaming or watch Netflix etc it's reliability I want.,

I am not 100% sure I have done the right thing going to virgin, their reviews on trust pilot don't look good, I have 14 days after their equipment is delivered on the 4th February to decide

Am I better to stay with the openreach system or virgin system ? 

Thank you 

Is that a typo where you mention contacting Sky as they can't fix your Talk Talk broadband? Ignore Trustpilot as it's a waste of time. Virgin BB can be hit or miss in my experience but then so can any other supplier. Just wait and see how you get on with them since you've already signed up.

35har1old

iniltous said:

If you were on TT 65Mb you were already on FTTC ( fibre ) so if the Openreach tech stated you would be better on ‘fibre’ either he wasn’t aware you were already on ‘fibre , albeit FTTC , or FTTP is available in your area and was suggesting that changing from FTTC to FTTP would provide a better service, but it’s all moot anyway , if you have already signed up with Virgin, which is a totally different and separate network from Openreach,
VM isn’t an open network available to other ISP like TT  , you can only have VM service on VM networks.
If you have access to Openreach FTTP as well as Openreach FTTC (  your TT service was FTTC) then the distance to the cabinet is irrelevant, FTTP doesn’t use the cabinet, and the speed purchased is the speed you get , there is no distance related reduction , but as it is , no one knows if you have access to FTTP as well as FTTC.

FYI, your VM service , will almost certainly not be FTTP , fibre right into your home , it will be similar to your TT service, in that the fibre goes to the Virgin cabinet , then it’s a copper cable into your home , it’s a coax cable rather than a copper pair cable , and the technology is different on VM , but it’s still a hybrid system, the same as the OR FTTC system you had with TT , but it is capable of higher speeds than OR FTTC .

TBH , if your TT service was dropping out all the time , you probably had a fault that needed reporting to TT so that any replacement or repair needed could be arranged, but if you have already signed up to VM , it’s irrelevant now.

My neighbor's have got there cables upgraded but I'm not sure about doing the same.
Does the fiber need a power supply adjacent to where the cable enters the house as mine is in the hall with no plugs adjacent.
I currently run the broadband from a telephone extension 

iniltous

FTTP is totally separate to the copper pair network, although it may use the same method of getting to the property, so if ducted ( for example ) the new fibre cable will arrive at the property in the same place as the copper pair , but can terminate somewhere different to where the existing master socket for the copper network is , the fibre ultimately terminates at the ONT , which needs a power supply, so basically if the master socket is in a hallway with no power nearby, it doesn't matter , the ONT can be placed somewhere different , although some practical considerations will be taken into account , like if the duct comes up against the front of the house , the installer isn’t necessarily going to run the cable all the way to the rear , especially if that would require cabling internally, to site the ONT at the rear , this is more a time constraint, they won’t spend hours doing that , but generally they will put the ONT where the customer wants it.

35har1old

iniltous said:

FTTP is totally separate to the copper pair network, although it may use the same method of getting to the property, so if ducted ( for example ) the new fibre cable will arrive at the property in the same place as the copper pair , but can terminate somewhere different to where the existing master socket for the copper network is , the fibre ultimately terminates at the ONT , which needs a power supply, so basically if the master socket is in a hallway with no power nearby, it doesn't matter , the ONT can be placed somewhere different , although some practical considerations will be taken into account , like if the duct comes up against the front of the house , the installer isn’t necessarily going to run the cable all the way to the rear , especially if that would require cabling internally, to site the ONT at the rear , this is more a time constraint, they won’t spend hours doing that , but generally they will put the ONT where the customer wants it.

I think the duct runs into the master socket as when the neighbor was having his installed the technician said to me that he had fished my duct and he said it went the full distance. You say they would not be happy cabling internally but there is no other way of getting to the area where I currently have my router. Flooring is chipboard not the best for lifting and I assume that would be the case