Boiler choices.

getmore4less

FreeBear said:

getmore4less said: Straight swap should be possible as boiler is in garage outside wall with suitable drain for a condensate run.rk central.

Getting into some home automation so would want support for something in the likes of home assistant as well as any standalone ecosystem.

Rad's seem to be ok for size in most rooms, most are type 22.

Be careful putting a boiler in the garage - These spaces can get cold & damp which doesn't do the electronics any favours. Many manufacturers do not recommend installing a boiler in an outbuilding (which what a garage is).

Home Assistant is fun, but it can be a rabbit hole you disappear down without an exit. I'm adding a bunch more sensors to my HA and am waiting on some mains powered ESP32 modules to arrive.

Radiators - You can get Type 33, but these are huge even compared to Type 22 radiators. Ideally, with a modern condensing boiler, having radiators 25-50% oversized will allow you to get the best out of them with lower flow temperatures. It would also put you in the position of being heat pump ready if/when the time comes. In the meantime, whack in as much insulation as you can and kill those draughts.

thanks
Attached double, drylined with ceiling(some insulation) as was  showroom for estate.
no cars, storage, washer, HP dryer(7winters), freezer, existing boiler(in enclosed cupboard) for 25+years.


Been monitoring temp humidity since Nov.
Been in the 7c-10c 60%-70% most of that time.
Dropped to 0.5c over one night in that 10 day cold snap, we were away so no  input from the door to house being used   

Last couple of weeks humidity has crept up to 75%-85% probably a bit high(don't have outside readings could just be the same

Today outside is ~10c-12c in garage ~11c   suns come out it might go up as has a big south window.

Going easy on HA for now stalled with the BT for the thermostats also been very busy Dec, now need new boiler. .

Think rad reviews are going to be another time when we see what the new boiler can do with the current ones.
Audit sizes etc. to see what we have and do some room calcs for what we need.
Not been in the loft for years that probably could have some extra.


Pretty well sealed as window were done 2011, could close vents but need to monitor humidity which we can do now. 

ThisIsWeird

Boiler should be fine in the garage, but I presume it has (will have) a frost stat? Any concerns, build a cupboard around it.

Ah, so the Owl is a temp-compensator, and only adjusts the CH start-up time so that the house is at the required temp at the required time? What is doesn't do - as far as I understand - is also adjust the boiler's output flow temp in order to keep it as low (and efficient) as possible. These are quite different things.

With the best will, it's unlikely that a boiler fitted to an existing system is going to manage to warm up a house to the desired level every day of the year, if set at it's most efficient flow temp of <50oC. So the boiler will tend to be set to provide a flow temp that'll suit most, if not all, of the seasonal temps. In which case, for most of the year, it'll be too high = less efficient.

A weather compensator would hopefully handle the flow temp, whilst the Owl or its equivalent will handle start-up times, and modulation. Unless, modern control systems do both? Ie, if it senses a mild indoor temp, it'll not only fire up the boiler later, but also at a lower flow temp?

I don't know.

ThisIsWeird

If your system is drained, or will be done so pre-new boiler, then do you fancy swapping the TRVs yourself for Smart ones? Save a bit on cost.

£3k+ for a new heat-only boiler seems excessive to me. ~£1k for the boiler, so £2k+ for what the heck?

getmore4less

No modulation with our current setup.

House warmed and stays pretty warm with the current boiler output temp reduced(3ish don't know temp), there was scope to reduce further and over an evening 5-6 hours would only cycle up a few times for short periods  to top up, should give scope to reduced temps for longer.

Going to experiment time once done.

jennifernil

I checked the price on ours, that size (32kw) is around £1500 to buy, add on the flue kit, 2 Grundfoss pumps, the magnetic filter, various plumbing parts to connect, at least 10m of 22 mm copper pipe, flushing and refilling system, fitting condensate pipework, altering and repairing brickwork for flue, a days labour for the expert and assistant, and removal of all debris, we reckoned £3000 was reasonable.  And we know this guy does a good job, having used him before.

Could have had a different boiler at a slightly lower price of course.   12 year warranty on this one, which will "see us out" !

ThisIsWeird

jennifernil said:

I checked the price on ours, that size (32kw) is around £1500 to buy, add on the flue kit, 2 Grundfoss pumps, the magnetic filter, various plumbing parts to connect, at least 10m of 22 mm copper pipe, flushing and refilling system, fitting condensate pipework, altering and repairing brickwork for flue, a days labour for the expert and assistant, and removal of all debris, we reckoned £3000 was reasonable.  And we know this guy does a good job, having used him before.

Could have had a different boiler at a slightly lower price of course.   12 year warranty on this one, which will "see us out" !

You have a 32kW heat-only boiler? Where did you say your castle was located?

But, yes, £3k in your case was not 'unreasonable', but still a nice earner.

Fair do's - GM4L will also have a new condensate run, flue changes and stuff too.

ThisIsWeird

getmore4less said:

No modulation with our current setup.

House warmed and stays pretty warm with the current boiler output temp reduced(3ish don't know temp), there was scope to reduce further and over an evening 5-6 hours would only cycle up a few times for short periods  to top up, should give scope to reduced temps for longer.

Going to experiment time once done.

No modulation and no condensing either, so I'm not sure of what the efficiency savings could be with a non-condens boiler.

I think the single most effective change you could make to your current system is to shift the room stat to the living area :-)

getmore4less

jennifernil said:

I checked the price on ours, that size (32kw) is around £1500 to buy, add on the flue kit, 2 Grundfoss pumps, the magnetic filter, various plumbing parts to connect, at least 10m of 22 mm copper pipe, flushing and refilling system, fitting condensate pipework, altering and repairing brickwork for flue, a days labour for the expert and assistant, and removal of all debris, we reckoned £3000 was reasonable.  And we know this guy does a good job, having used him before.

Could have had a different boiler at a slightly lower price of course.   12 year warranty on this one, which will "see us out" !

Thanks, gives a good comparison
more work, more expensive boiler longer warranty (10-12) less money.

getmore4less

ThisIsWeird said:

getmore4less said:

No modulation with our current setup.

House warmed and stays pretty warm with the current boiler output temp reduced(3ish don't know temp), there was scope to reduce further and over an evening 5-6 hours would only cycle up a few times for short periods  to top up, should give scope to reduced temps for longer.

Going to experiment time once done.

No modulation and no condensing either, so I'm not sure of what the efficiency savings could be with a non-condens boiler.

I think the single most effective change you could make to your current system is to shift the room stat to the living area :-)

The new boiler will be condensing and able to be modulated.

Making full use of those facilities will require other changes.

ThisIsWeird

getmore4less said:

ThisIsWeird said:

getmore4less said:

No modulation with our current setup.

House warmed and stays pretty warm with the current boiler output temp reduced(3ish don't know temp), there was scope to reduce further and over an evening 5-6 hours would only cycle up a few times for short periods  to top up, should give scope to reduced temps for longer.

Going to experiment time once done.

No modulation and no condensing either, so I'm not sure of what the efficiency savings could be with a non-condens boiler.

I think the single most effective change you could make to your current system is to shift the room stat to the living area :-)

The new boiler will be condensing and able to be modulated.

Making full use of those facilities will require other changes.

Yes, the new boiler will have all that. I was talking about your current boiler - I thought you were carrying out tests on that one, and I didn't think there was much point :-)

'Condensing' and 'modulating' are standard boiler features, and have been for ~15years. For max efficiency, I suggest you need to look further - features like weather comp, and quality of control interface.