PCN NTK letter from Euro parking services

SLC80

Hi all, 

Hoping I can get some advice following the advice already given on the NEWBIES and other threads. I’m still finding I’m asking myself lots of questions and then getting myself tied up in knots with what to do next …so here I am as a final resort.

 

My plan A is to of course get in touch with Store manager/landowner/MP Due to the time of year I haven’t been able to do this yet. If I’m unsuccessful…

 

My plan B is to appeal.

But would really appreciate some help please while I’m off work, I have put together the below just in case!

If you are unable to view attached pictures of my PCN? See below including full story

hxxps://www.dropbox.com/s/c67fia5a3cgtrps/20230101_024432%20%281%29.jpg?dl=0

hxxps://www.dropbox.com/s/i195kpisi565brh/20230101_024439.jpg?dl=0

I entered a private carpark, registered to EPS (Euro parking service) part of Kings square shopping centre. Later finding out this was not a pay or display but a permit only carpark. I was here for approx. 5 min before driving off.

 

To give a little bit more to the story ….

It’s my first time going to this area by car and finding a safe spot to drop and go. At the current time the visibility was extremely poor, it was dark and with extremely heavy rain and I needed to find somewhere safe to park to drop my daughter off as she needed to a collect a prescription from the Superdrug store and then get to the tram to work.

 

As it was heavily raining, I wanted to drop my daughter in a safe place, close to the entrance to avoid getting too wet. I found this small quiet empty carpark. One other vehicle was there with its engine running. I turned in dropped off my daughter, drove to entrance as if to drive back out but stood stationary, not obstructing the exit, not in a parking bay, not on double yellow/red lines or on a hatched area.  

 

I remained in the car for just over 5 mins before driving out. Time needed to google an address and then set my sat nav before I headed back out of car park. Then 15 days later I get hit with a PCN, NTK asking for a £100 fine or £60 if i pay by the 14th day. I feel this is unfair given my reasons for temporarily parking above.

 

See pictures…or just read below if not working?

 

I have since been back and taken pictures of the signs to see where I stand in regard to the parking rules and how visual these were to a driver in the dark! Not very,

Extremely small and poorly placed or faded. Had these signs been clearer I would have thought twice about entering or at the most not staying there the duration I did whilst sorting out my bearings.

 

hxxps://www.dropbox.com/s/8yvnvqol09oi40j/small%20signs.jpg?dl=0

hxxps://www.dropbox.com/s/qd1fl35lfowi5bs/defaced%20sign.jpg?dl=0

hxxps://www.dropbox.com/s/zol809ldmbn5g99/upclose%201.jpg?dl=0

hxxps://www.dropbox.com/s/hqrkvk7f6vscozo/upclose%202.jpg?dl=0

 

Going back to carpark (on foot this time!) and researching online and looking at the pictures I can see

1. It is used as a loading bay and by 2 small independent businesses.

2. No pay meters - permit only (does this mean no grace period?)

3. Poor signage, too small and faded. 

4. Where I was parked there was also an empty white transit van that covered one of the signs. no other activity. Very quiet and empty. 

Hoping some of these points will help when and if I appealed?

If it does come to that, I’ve decided to appeal online either using the No-nonsense appeals template or the blue text template ONE SIZE FITS ALL

 

Couple of questions on this though…

 

Will either of these buy me more time and pause the 14-day discount period?

 

I’ve also read blue text template doesn’t need to change but after reading template not all information seems like it would fit to suit my PCN? See below * next to  italic.

Would this need revising, could I add in some other points i.e. Poor visibility and poor signage?? If so, I need HELP with this please?

 

If Plan B, and I appealed using the blue text template, do I paste and submit using EPS appeals route or send separately in writing to EPS online only?

 

Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner. *[Googled landowner of kings square shopping centre, but not clear on who this still is reading it says it’s the Owner of shopping centre buildings, landowner of carpark area too? Rang but no answer! Any help on how I advance my search on this please as this will help with PLAN A.]    

There will be no admissions as to who was driving, and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close-up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle. *[They have sent me this already. Vehicle only.]

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it. *[No option to pay as its permit only. Delete paragraph?]

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. *[I have tried researching on MSE forum and googling if there are any Grace periods with car parks like this, but I can’t find anything. Lots mention a 10 min grace for a paid carpark but nothing for this type of carpark where they don’t issue parking tickets]

Or should I use the other template No-nonsense appeals. And post this on their online appeals route?

Apologies a lot of questions! Help with all or a few would be greatly appreciated and hopefully this will also help someone else with similar questions? (Maybe the car who was parked next to me at the time!)

Thanks for reading and any advice in advance. I will post again once I hear back from Plan A.

PS keep up the great work and the efforts you put into helping people and taking off some if not all of the stress in these dilemmas, Including me!

 

Thank you! 😊

Grizebeck

Just use the template as it is

SLC80

Hi Thanks,

Do I paste and submit using EPS appeals route or send separately in writing to EPS online?

Umkomaas

SLC80 said:

Hi Thanks,

Do I paste and submit using EPS appeals route or send separately in writing to EPS online?

Follow exactly the appeal route given to you by EPC in their PCN. Deviate from that and they won't consider the appeal. 

Coupon-mad

There must always be a grace period.  Ignore EPS after the first appeal.  DO NOT try IAS.

Come back if you ever get a court claim.

Email EPS if you move house within 6 years.

SLC80

Thank you CM. Reassuring to know there's always a grace period.

Update, Found possible Landowners, they are not answering.
I have been in touch with Superdrug, they were sympathetic but couldn't help as they said don't know where to start who to go to and have in fact had the same issue and paid the £60/100 charge!

They have told me to get in touch with security at the shopping centre as they may know who the landowners are and could possibly speak with them or put me in touch. Seems like a long shot but worth a go.. either way I be will writing to their CEO today. Sure I've seen a template on here for that too.


Quick question. if i need to buy myself more time and when appealing via an EPS route, does anyone know if the PCN will be put on hold, is this also a requirement they must also follow? 

KeithP

SLC80 said:

They have told me to get in touch with security at the shopping centre...

Which shopping centre are we talking about here?

Grizebeck

Buy more time? Thats all irrelevant

Coupon-mad

Nothing will be put 'on hold' and there's no need to care.  You don't want/need the stupid thing on hold!

It will get to £170 on the daft debt demands later on, which you already know to ignore, from reading the 4th post of the NEWBIES thread.

SLC80

KeithP said:

SLC80 said:

They have told me to get in touch with security at the shopping centre...

Which shopping centre are we talking about here?

Kings square shopping centre West Bromwich, West Midlands.  

SLC80

Coupon-mad said:

Nothing will be put 'on hold' and there's no need to care.  You don't want/need the stupid thing on hold!

It will get to £170 on the daft debt demands later on, which you already know to ignore, from reading the 4th post of the NEWBIES thread.

It was a merely a question. I've appealed in the past (council) without using this forum as they do 'hold' whilst dealing with a appeal. I also asked as its niggling in the back of my head and quite frankly stresses me out when I see the amount they are asking for now, let alone further demands! 

..but yes totally agree, this is a different ball game and remember its a private 'SCAM' and pointless caring what the ticket gets too. I just need to keep telling myself that!

Re NEWBIES, There's a lot to read, take in, digest and remember which is why i got myself into a tizz in the first place and posted on here.

Please be patient with us we don't know the process again and again and have to learn to become numb to the scary nature of these horrible companies. Some questions that are asked are genuinely because guidance is needed when panic kicks.

Thanks again for the reassurance though. That's what I'm taking from it