Am I guaranteed the £ amount which was listed on the probate form (6+ months ago)?

Anonymous868

I will keep this post as short as possible:

My father died 3-years ago.
He co-owned 2 properties (with my mum / which automatically became fully hers upon his death) + had approx £300,000 spread across dozens of bank-accounts & investment-funds.

His will stated that myself & my 2 sisters each recieve an equal share upto the IHT / With the rest going to my mum.


Things have been extremely 'messy' with his will being processed though...
As my mum arranged for the original executors to relinquish their roles (back in 2020), and for my sister to take-over the role of executor/administrator of the will.
It's now 2023, but yet the will still has not been processed / Plus my sister basically refuses to speak to my mum (or to me).

#

I looked on the probate-registry though and saw that probate was granted (to my sister as the named administrator) back in June 2022.

It states on the grant document that the gross-value of the estate was declared as £309,000 / Net value declared as £307,000.
(Thus should be £102,000 payable to per each myself + my 2 sisters)


My question though is that if/when I do finally get paid my share of the inheritance, is it ''legally guaranteed'' to be that sum of £102,000?

Or could my sister legally simply pay me a lower sum, and claim that:
''Whilst at the time when probate was granted the total estate had assets of £307,000... The value of those assets has decreased since then (and/or) was mis-calculated, and thus the true value is only 75% of that sum, therefore I will get paid 75k rather than 102k''...??

Marcon

Anonymous868 said:

I will keep this post as short as possible:

My father died 3-years ago.
He co-owned 2 properties (with my mum / which automatically became fully hers upon his death) + had approx £300,000 spread across dozens of bank-accounts & investment-funds.

His will stated that myself & my 2 sisters each recieve an equal share upto the IHT / With the rest going to my mum.


Things have been extremely 'messy' with his will being processed though...
As my mum arranged for the original executors to relinquish their roles (back in 2020), and for my sister to take-over the role of executor/administrator of the will.
It's now 2023, but yet the will still has not been processed / Plus my sister basically refuses to speak to my mum (or to me).

#

I looked on the probate-registry though and saw that probate was granted (to my sister as the named administrator) back in June 2022.

It states on the grant document that the gross-value of the estate was declared as £309,000 / Net value declared as £307,000.
(Thus should be £102,000 payable to per each myself + my 2 sisters)


My question though is that if/when I do finally get paid my share of the inheritance, is it ''legally guaranteed'' to be that sum of £102,000?

Or could my sister legally simply pay me a lower sum, and claim that:
''Whilst at the time when probate was granted the total estate had assets of £307,000... The value of those assets has decreased since then (and/or) was mis-calculated, and thus the true value is only 75% of that sum, therefore I will get paid 75k rather than 102k''...??

The probate value is simply the value of assets minus liabilities at the time of death. It is highly unlikely to remain set in stone - asset values could vary, there may be costs in administering the estate (especially if advice needs to be taken), or creditors may come out of the woodwork.
 
What you receive might also depend on the wording of the will. I trust it has a more explicit wording than 'up to the IHT'.  The amount you receive could be lower, but it could also be higher if the assets have increased in value (again, depending on the wording of the will).

p00hsticks

Probate is supposed to use the values of assets as at the date of death - if those assets include things such as property, shares etc then the values could easily rise or fall since that time,and there may also well be costs associated with realising those assets which will coem out of the estate.

So no, you can't guarantee that you will receive an inheritance as a proprtion of the net  value listed at probate.

RAS

There are multiple other threads indicating the much of the estate including the properties was held jointly with mum.

The probate value is only for individual savings and accounts. Obviously, any stocks and shares could increase or decrease in value. And any savings attracting interest might gain interest, whilst failing to give proper notice of closure might lead to penalties.

With inflation as it is, I'd advise writing to your sister and asking when she is going to distribute the estate, as it is being devalued by inflation all the time. Best if you could get your other sister to sign jointly, or send a similar letter.

Keep_pedalling

It sounds like this will was written prior to Oct 2007 when Gordon Brown brought in the transferable NRB. Prior to that your father’s NRB would have been lost on his death if he left everything to his wife, so for IHT purposes wills often had such a clause in to use up as much NRB as possible. Ideally they should have made new wills after the change made the clause obsolete but as they didn’t the executor must still distribute the estate as per the will, which means his sole assets should have all gone to his children as those fell below the NRB. 

This could have been changed by a deed of variation within 2 years of the death but obviously this did not happen so you should have received a 3rd of his inheritable estate. Time to confront your sister and if she won’t talk to you then send her a letter before action giving her 2 weeks to respond otherwise you will take legal action against her.

RAS

It's also now too late for mum to apply for a variation on the grounds of reasonable provision from his sole assets?

Keep_pedalling

If your mother has not already done so she should make a new will with appropriate executors,  certainly not the daughter who is making a hash of your father’s estate. She should also put lasting powers of attorney in place if not done already.

Anonymous868

Hello, and thankyou for all your comments.


To answer them:

• This 309k (value of estated listed on the probate form) is purely the money that was in my father's bank accounts + stocks & shares funds.
  (The 2 properties he owned transferred automatically to my mum due to them being co-owners | So any/all money listed on this probate document would purely be cash held in his bank accounts & share funds; Plus he had no debts or liabilities)
  
  *Whilst I'm ofcourse aware that the value of stockmarket investment can fluctuate, given that he died 3-years ago, surely the investment funds would have by now had to liquidate all his holdings into cash :: Not be legally allowed to continue investment his money (as their customer) despite the fact he is dead?
  
  
  
• In regards to my mum changing her will, she has finally agreed to do so.
  I have told her to simply name the solicitor's firm which holds her will, as also being the executor.
  
  
  
• In regards to me sending a LBA to my sister though...
  Unfortunately the process of taking legal action against an executor (as per my research into this process) is extremely complex + expensive.
  It would require me to hire & pay for a solicitior, and instruct them to file a claim against my sister (which had to be made via the high court).
  The claim needs to be comprehensive (thus extremely expensive in billable-hours for the solicitor), but moreover needs to prove that they acted either fraudulently or are mentally-incapable of doing the role.
  
  (Them being extremely slow at executing their duties is not a valid basis to even commence a claim, let alone have any chance of winning)
  

RAS

I'd make absolutely sure mum HAS changed the names of her executors, if your sister was named, before writing to your sister. Or just accept that naming the solicitor's firm is going to cost a lot but at least you might get the money within 18 months? 

Most people would regard that as outrageous but it's better than the current situation. For reference we had a huge problem regarding one executor who was difficult to trace. And still made an initial distribution within 3 months of resolving the issue. 

SiliconChip

Anonymous868 said:

• *Whilst I'm ofcourse aware that the value of stockmarket investment can fluctuate, given that he died 3-years ago, surely the investment funds would have by now had to liquidate all his holdings into cash :: Not be legally allowed to continue investment his money (as their customer) despite the fact he is dead?
  

Not unless they have been instructed to do so by the executor. The money was already invested and those investments will continue until they are told to do something with them. The only change that might have happened is that the ownership could have had "Executors of" added to the name. When my mum died in 2021 her estate included shares that were still in my dad's name even though he had died 11 years previously (and I now own those shares, although I had them transferred into my name once probate had been granted).

user1977

Anonymous868 said:

• surely the investment funds would have by now had to liquidate all his holdings into cash :: Not be legally allowed to continue investment his money (as their customer) despite the fact he is dead?
  

No, there is no such requirement - and often the investments are never liquidated and are instead transferred into the names of the beneficiaries.