Neighbours nuisance trees???

flamespittingcobra

I hope someone can help me, I am having trouble with 2 trees on neighbouring land, and I was wondering if I am able to argue that they are causing a statutory nuisance?

They are 2 huge multi trunked sycamores, both approx 30m high, on council owned land, just behind my house. The main trunks are 16m and 20m from my house, the limbs come to within about 5m of the house, and the prevailing wind means they dump all their leaves, and helicopter seeds on us, I have no issue with clearing this from the garden, but the trouble is the damage it does to the house. They are getting very close to overhanging our boundary, but are not quite doing so yet. I am currently having to clear my oversized deepflow gutters every 2-3 weeks due to the debris they drop clogging them. The house needs reroofing, as the battens and felt are rotten, due to accumulation of the seeds in the eaves. I have no issue with getting this work done, I just don't want to have to do it again in the future due to these trees, the house was built in 1975, and this will already be the second roof replacement it has had. We have also had issues with the cars parked on the drive, the seeds get into the engine and clog drainage ports and filters.

I realise that the trees were there before I moved in, they were there before the house was built, they were there probably 200 years ago before there were any buildings in this area, but I surely have a case to ask for them to be at the very least pollarded down to a height that's more in keeping with the area, that won't drop debris on us??? It's very difficult to find any sort of definition of what constitutes a nuisance. The are not covered by preservation orders, and are not in a conservation zone.

Any advice would be greatly appreciatted, I have spoken to the councils tree officer, and he might be coming out to have a look. But the tree assessment that they have on file for these trees says they are safe.

Miser1964

As it's Council land you could try this approach. Speak to your house insurer about the increasing risk of extensive and costly damage to the property from the weak trees or a branch falling in a storm. Suggest to the insurer they write to the Council's Head of Finance, setting out that they would reclaim all costs from the Council in the event you make a claim. This financial liability can often spur a Council into taking action. 

Norman_Castle

flamespittingcobra said:

I realise that the trees were there before I moved in, they were there before the house was built, they were there probably 200 years ago before there were any buildings in this area,

Sycamores are a pain when close to buildings. They drop large leaves, seeds and flowers at different times of the year which repeatedly block gutters. They also create a large amount of fallen leaves which needs to be disposed off. Don't assume they're old trees because of their size. There are two close to where I live which are 30+ meters high and very wide and are only 30 years old, another about 20 meters high is about 20 years old. The 30 meter trees near me have already been pruned but the reduced height has regrown very quickly. I now every few years search the area behind my home for small self seeded saplings and pull them out of the ground or cut them down to prevent even more trees growing. I'd suggest you do the same. I've twice cleared the same area of self seeded sycamores of about 6 meters which is the largest I'm willing to deal with. I like trees including sycamores but in urban areas should be considered an invasive weed and contained accordingly. A neigbouring property has one growing rapidly very close to our building which is quickly becoming another nuisance and has the potential to damage both ours and their property. Their property is owned by a charity with an area maintenance surveyor who unfortunately seems keen to do nothing about it. I recently read neigbours can be held liable for damaged to neighbouring properties caused by trees they own but need to look further into that.

Good luck sorting this out and please update with any success you have.

theoretica

Are you willing to pay for the work on the trees?  Permission might be easier to get than money...

Have you consulted about ways to protect your house and property more?  Is there any sort of effective gutter guard?  Car covers/shelters?  I don't have a good mental image of how the seeds are destroying the roof - surely the roof could have been built to withstand them?

flamespittingcobra

theoretica said:

Are you willing to pay for the work on the trees?  Permission might be easier to get than money...

Have you consulted about ways to protect your house and property more?  Is there any sort of effective gutter guard?  Car covers/shelters?  I don't have a good mental image of how the seeds are destroying the roof - surely the roof could have been built to withstand them?

The seeds have likely got in under the tiles at the eaves, there's a pile on top of the felt in between each of the joints. Somehow they have got wet, possibly due to inflow from overflowing gutters, or possibly due to condenstation not being about toe drain out properly.....they've sat there wet, and rotted the felt and batten It's a right mess.

Sadly this area is on an area of unmaintained scrub behind a childrens centre, so I can't get access to it to keep it clear of the self set saplings.

Devongardener

If you look at your local council website, there will probably be a section about trees and what happens in cases like yours. If you have legal protection with your home insurance they should be able to advise.

GDB2222

How lucky you and your neighbours are to have such wonderful trees in the vicinity. It’s obviously a PITA for you and your gutters, but a wonderful facility to have for everyone else. Given that, I wonder how the council will balance your losses against the general good? 

Soot2006

Sycamores are not wonderful trees; they are overgrown weeds!  Even the birds  and insects don't get much out of them. And those that do, can get it from the million other sycamore in the vicinity.  I am a garden and tree lover! But sycamores have made it onto my Kill List for various reasons.  I was able to get one removed  that straddled the boundary between my garden and the neighbour. About 20m high monster that overshadowed the entire area. No TPO. Cost me £400 (cash ahem) and n the only 3 years since it's gone, I've been able to grow in two apple trees and an ornamental cherry, all on rootstock limited to 3-4m height. The neighbour behind who was also shadowed has been able to add trees to his garden now too. So where we used to have 1 sycamore + a dark wasteland, we now have Zero sycamore + a cute little orchard ... and all the wildflowers have come back too. Way more small wildlife than before already.

/rant over.

Contact council/owners of trees. Make proposal that showcases risks to your home (that you are now formally informing them of), if you can, offer to pay for removal of said trees and - most importantly - replace with 2-3 site-appropriate smaller trees. Councils love rowan trees and everyone loves ornamental cherries ... or quince/crab apple, etc! Every tree removed I believe should be replaced +1 but there are appropriate and inappropriate trees. Sycamores should stay out in the rural areas where they have space (although, we have to cut them down there too as they poison horses!).

Section62

Miser1964 said:

As it's Council land you could try this approach. Speak to your house insurer about the increasing risk of extensive and costly damage to the property from the weak trees or a branch falling in a storm. Suggest to the insurer they write to the Council's Head of Finance, setting out that they would reclaim all costs from the Council in the event you make a claim. This financial liability can often spur a Council into taking action. 

Do you know of any insurance companies that actually do that, rather than say putting the premium up at the next renewal as a result of the customer making them aware of increased risk?

The council's Head of Finance will be well aware that household insurers may seek to recover costs from the council. It is quite likely the Head of Finance will have a team or department dedicated to handling insurance claims.

If the insurer could be persuaded to write such a letter, the outcome might be a response stating that the trees have previously been assessed as "safe" (as per the OP) rather than "weak".  If the council carries out periodic assessments of all its trees (as most do) then its liability will be limited.  Furthermore, any claims that are made will be subject to scrutiny and, for example, it may be pointed out that roof felt and battens won't rot purely as a result of seeds from a nearby tree falling on the roof - for this to happen it would be necessary for the roof to be defective in the first place, along with a possible lack of preventative maintenance.

If councils routinely cut down healthy trees as a result of complaints and concerns over safety then it is likely the arboriculture department would need more funding than the insurance department.  Complaints like this are so common.  If there are genuine concerns over the safety of a tree this should be reported to the council, but unfounded threats about insurance claims are relatively pointless.

flamespittingcobra

I am certainly not someone who is keen to cut down trees for no reason, I'm going to offer to replant the area with something far more suitable and attractive, at my expense, if we can get somewhere with these trees. I can't for one second believe that anyone around us is thinking it's a wonderful tree, it's a lapsed pollard, so has been cut way back in the past, but it hasn't been maintained, and it's shot up.

I'm just trying to work out if these issues we're having qualify as "statutory nuisance"? The definition of "unreasonably and substantially interfere with the use and enjoymant of a home" seems hard to come by, I was wondering if anyone has any experience of this?

Norman_Castle

Are other neighbours bothered by these trees?