Standby costs

steven0121

MattMattMattUK said:

steven0121 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

born_again said:

Which begs the question. Who only uses the TV for 4 hours a day. 
Which actual manufactures devices were they using & were they the latest or older products that many will have?

As to switching on & off. All I can base my findings on. Is the MIL used to go through kitchen products a lot more than us. As they were turned on & off for each use... 

I would hazard a guess at most people with a job use the TV for less than four hours a day, even less on average if they also have a social life.

so, are you suggesting that, say someone like me, a disabled person who can barely leave there own flat (elec only - cant afford to move because I cant find a landlord willing, and the rents keep going up) who has no friends, because, guess what, I cant make any, because, guess what, I live alone in an all elec flat and have no money. 

So, back to your point, its my fault that I watch TV, or at least have it on, more than 4 hours/day?

The original person I replied to saying that they could not understand how someone could only use a TV for four hours a day. I pointed out that most working people would likely fit into that category. The reason the four hour per day figure is used for annual energy estimates for TVs is because that is the average usage figure. None of that is about "fault" or whatever else you have decided to get upset about, it is just a factual answer to a question.

steven0121 said:

I hope you pop a few quid in the church to pay for your sanctimonious self centred and frankly cruel pov.

I am not religious and I fail to see how a factual reply is any of what you claim to be offended about, if you are unable to understand that people who work and socialise outside of their home will generally not watch more than four hours a day of TV then it would appear that the issue is yours.

thankyou for factually proving my point.

MattMattMattUK

steven0121 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

steven0121 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

born_again said:

Which begs the question. Who only uses the TV for 4 hours a day. 
Which actual manufactures devices were they using & were they the latest or older products that many will have?

As to switching on & off. All I can base my findings on. Is the MIL used to go through kitchen products a lot more than us. As they were turned on & off for each use... 

I would hazard a guess at most people with a job use the TV for less than four hours a day, even less on average if they also have a social life.

so, are you suggesting that, say someone like me, a disabled person who can barely leave there own flat (elec only - cant afford to move because I cant find a landlord willing, and the rents keep going up) who has no friends, because, guess what, I cant make any, because, guess what, I live alone in an all elec flat and have no money. 

So, back to your point, its my fault that I watch TV, or at least have it on, more than 4 hours/day?

The original person I replied to saying that they could not understand how someone could only use a TV for four hours a day. I pointed out that most working people would likely fit into that category. The reason the four hour per day figure is used for annual energy estimates for TVs is because that is the average usage figure. None of that is about "fault" or whatever else you have decided to get upset about, it is just a factual answer to a question.

steven0121 said:

I hope you pop a few quid in the church to pay for your sanctimonious self centred and frankly cruel pov.

I am not religious and I fail to see how a factual reply is any of what you claim to be offended about, if you are unable to understand that people who work and socialise outside of their home will generally not watch more than four hours a day of TV then it would appear that the issue is yours.

thankyou for factually proving my point.

You disagree that using average usage figures to calculate average energy usage is a reasonable position and that pointing out how a large group of people fit those average figures is wrong?

You then feel that pointing out that fact is "proving your point"? In that case it would be wise to state your point as if you have one, do disagree with the usage of averages, the explanation of how those averages apply to the majority of people, or the usage of averages to calculate energy usage figures?

steven0121

Not at all, I disagree that talking down to people, and proving how smart you are on a public forum is harmful, especially given the current climate, 

My point is, if you are smart, then maybe try being a bit nicer with it.

It's not that hard, just a choice, for those that are smart.

I can quote figures, or solve an T independent wave equation, I won't, because its of no help.

Yes this is a public forum, but guess what, real humans, with real feelings come here, please , be a little kinder

ariarnia

steven0121 said:

Its not about "most, or Average", or value judgement" or "fault", its about a simple thing,

In a world where you can anything, be Kind

If you cant, then expect someone to bite back.

but thats the point. it wasnt unkind. 

it was a post talking about likely average use when the topic is a table of average use. 

averages will never apply to anyone. but that doesn't mean talking about averages is unkind. 

In a world where you can chose how to react to things, dont assume people are being unkind because youve read something in a specific way and then lashed out at them. 

lashing out because you've read something and gotten upset isnt kind. 

taking a step back and thinking about what they might have meant and how it could be read a differnt way before responding is giving someone the benefit of the doubt and is kind (in my book). 

steven0121

I will respectfully withdraw my comments, with apologies to the OP, yes I did react.

Please continue the discussion. 

Norman_Castle

Article in full https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/how-much-does-it-really-cost-you-to-leave-your-tech-on-standby-a9Elw3D3HKUR

A lot of previous articles exclaiming you can save hundreds are thrown together from poorly sourced, misunderstood and outdated information. Poor journalism.

Slightly odd they've included a turntable, hardly a common item. I've owned about 10 turntables, none has had the option to leave it in standby.

Full list below which includes another 3 items. Why couldn't they just show the full list instead of expecting site users to click a button to see the last 3? Almost half of the £24 annual saving is from the last two items. I also suspect the sound bar is actually a wireless sound bar which stays active when in standby ready to receive a wireless signal.

Did someone at Which just take a plug in monitor home and check the items they own?

Tech device	Annual standby costs	Annual powered-on costs
TV	65p	£51.33
Blu-ray player	94p	£4.75
Smart plug	£1.22	£1.72
DAB radio	£1.86	£2.94
Turntable	£1.89	£3.19
TV streamer	£2.78	£3.75
Set-top box/PVR	£3.23	£7.31
Sound bar	£5.58	£10.35
Wireless speaker	£6.03	£10.54

getmore4less

no smart meter yet

using 35p/kWh

Some items  will need longer term checks for full days or months to get better estimates

I am using TAPO P110 with energy monitor they use a around 1w,  4.3kWh annual, around £1.50 each.

if using TAPO P110 as a switch no point if the device(or cluster) is using 1w or less.

annual ignoring use time for worst case.

Washing machine (not used everyday, some days multiple times)
Ours has a dial if set to off it uses around ~0.7Wh day.
on standby it goes up to ~44Wh day
Remembering to turn it to off after use will save up to ~£5.50
The big savings here are cooler washes and using the eco modes

Tumble Dryer 
No off option, deep standby around 8Wh a day ~£1 a year.
Not worth the hassle of a switch

Battery charger(AA,AAA etc, not used a lot, weeks apart sometimes)
this was drawing 2w, ~17.5kWh(~£6) year always on an extension with other things
Now on a easy access switched supply 

PC/monitor cluster.
PC sleep and standby on the monitors, speakers 
draw around 15w  ~130kWh(~£46).
Now hibernate and powered off
When in use around 1kWh a day from the cluster.

Same era PC draws 2w when off (plugged in) not used much, now on a manual switch

New PC  
This is an always on to do the monitoring.
0.2-0.25kWh day. idles around 7w-10w
going to add more monitoring soon
This will also go up when everyday activity is transferred from the regular use PC above
estimate saving is more than 50% on PC, monitors will stay the same

Entertainment(need to do individuals)
TV(OLED), sound bar/wireless sub, VM box, router, NowTV box, firestick...
(Soundbar Bluetooth rears are different sockets)

When away background use was around 16w with a 2hr burst to 22w, daily around 0.4Kwh 
TV off still power, Sound bar and sub nowtv unplugged)

could squeeze, potential to get the ~£1 week down when away 

When all on the background standby is around 24w-36w guestimate for 24hr  0.5-0.6kWh
a bit more so also needs a squeeze, router needs to be on others for their update windows. 

When in use total draw is mainly in the 100w-300w giving daily use range of 1kWh-2.5kWh

Based on 2kWh and 40weeks use that's going to hit 560kWh ~£200(bit of a shock).

---------------------------------------
2 other big regular users are the Freezer and Fridge/Freezer.
Estimating annual ~225kWh(£80) for the freezer and ~450kWh(£160) for the FF
need to do longer runs on those especially the FF for a payback calculation, newer ones are better  )

Still got loads of items to monitor
want to reduce the ~4kWh a day background use
Find areas to save for the daily which is average just over 10kWh last period when we were away 30 out of 90 days.

Max68

My PC has had an issue with the monitor showing no connection upon boot so in the last two weeks or so I have just been leaving it on all the time rather than shutting it down and I have seen no difference in energy usage although I don't have a smart meter.  For a week I was turning kettle, oven and microwave off at the plug as a little experiment and again saw no difference but again no smart meter so only going on kwh per day.  I've dramatically cut down electric usage in the last year or so but it's things like turning lights off unless I am in that room or most dramatically not using the central heating as much has been the big saver as gas boilers still use electricity, plus of course not using washing machine, dish washer and dryer as much!

Grizzlebeard

I have on 24hour standby permanently -

    2x DECT phones
    TV
    TV aerial amplifier (PSU modified to modern switchmode - ex phone charger -saved about 5W continuous draw)
    Freeview Box
    Ancient Mains powered doorbell (PSU modified with solid state relay in TX primary -saved about 15W continuous draw)

My standby use is under the 20W threshold to register on my meter unless something else is also on (fridge for instance) so the anti creep LED on my Meter is on 20+ hours a day even when I'm using a couple of 3-5 watt LED lights or wall chargers.


When not in use I always turn off (at wall) - (The (resistive) "leakage" of suppressor caps in motorised appliances is usually trivial but not reliably zero and some have permanently powered Microchips and auxiliary circuitry.)

    Washing/Drying Machines
    Microwave
    Computer and Router etc. (don't have Net connected anything else)
    Vacuum cleaners

Everything else is left on at wall as it makes no difference.

MattMattMattUK

Max68 said:

My PC has had an issue with the monitor showing no connection upon boot so in the last two weeks or so I have just been leaving it on all the time rather than shutting it down and I have seen no difference in energy usage although I don't have a smart meter.  

A PC left asleep will use around 100W an hour if it is a full desktop, if it is an AIO it could be down to about 50W an hour, so 1.2-2.4kWh a day which is within a range that could be masked by day to day usage.

Max68 said:

For a week I was turning kettle, oven and microwave off at the plug as a little experiment and again saw no difference but again no smart meter so only going on kwh per day.

The kettle will use nothing when not in use, the oven might use <1w to power the clock light if it has one, the microwave something similar so very unlikely to show any differences at all.

Max68 said:

I've dramatically cut down electric usage in the last year or so but it's things like turning lights off unless I am in that room or most dramatically not using the central heating as much has been the big saver as gas boilers still use electricity, plus of course not using washing machine, dish washer and dryer as much!

Modern LED lights barely use anything, 3-8W is the typical range, the pumps for gas boilers do use electricity, but not very much. Washing at 20/30c is more than adequate for most things so that is a good saving and the dishwasher is also pretty low, however if you have a tumble dryer that will use a huge amount of energy. The best way to work out where the money goes is anything that generates heat, if it gets hot is using a lot of power.