Pretending to not be in a chain

jimbog

custardly said:

jimbog said:

custardly said:

silvercar said:

Not uncommon to say that you can buy without selling your property and then in a few weeks time "decide" that it would be easier to sell first.

Yes, I understand that it is not uncommon in a hot market. This will essentially be our strategy. But trying to understand at what point we would get found out.

Probably early on. The estate agent will likely Google your address to establish when you had bought it and how much you had paid to find out where you likely stood financially. Then they'll find that it hadn't sold since you moved in. Also, once you list it (with a different EA) you'll be found out 

That shouldn't be an issue as on paper we don't need to sell the house as we have AIP and cash deposit. The point is that in reality we do need to sell it to raise the funds.

Why are you now holding any credence by having an AIP?

custardly said:

Memzy said:

custardly said:

For future reference for anyone reading this. AIP means nothing, I could get an AIP for any amount I want within about 15 minutes. Never rest your hopes and dreams on a AIP!

Unfortunately I was never aware of this as a first time buyer and neither did my broker care to inform me

Completely understand mate. Similar thing happened to me. I always thought AIP was gospel. Then I realised that you can get one online from many banks easily for any amount you want. 

TripleH

The seller might have had a buyer pull out so are up against the clock to complete their onward purchase. You may find pressure to hit targets that are tight when you have an offer.

Who is the target market for your house? It may be a desirable area but can you be sure the market for those buying your house haven't gone into hibernation for now?

Your plan is workable if you are on the ball and deal with everything promptly, but with any house purchase, the transaction is only as fast as the slowest party in the chain.

lookstraightahead

Why don't you just sell first if you can sell in a fortnight, and move into rental. Then you can buy properly if you don't want a chain. 

I doubt you can sell as quickly as you think though 

letom

Clearly we all agree that this probably isn't the best way to go about things but to answer the actual question, in my experience not till late in the process (when lawyers start talking about exhcnage dates) would they probably find out.

I'm currently in the process of buying a second property, don't need to sell my first, registered with many estate agents and they just ask questions before viewings (no real digging), realistically agents aren't going on to land registry to find the name of owners to verify whether you've sold or not, they'll probably get a hunch from speaking to you and decide if you're lying or not.

My MIP mentioned nothing about my current property, simply the amount that I could borrow. So if the property is 200k and you have cash in bank of 20k and MIP of 180k then technically you can afford it so the estate agent isn't going to assume you need to sell your current property, because on paper it doesn't look like you have to. I don't see a world where an agent goes Sherlock Holmes when the numbers add up...

CKhalvashi

letom said:

Clearly we all agree that this probably isn't the best way to go about things but to answer the actual question, in my experience not till late in the process (when lawyers start talking about exhcnage dates) would they probably find out.

I'm currently in the process of buying a second property, don't need to sell my first, registered with many estate agents and they just ask questions before viewings (no real digging), realistically agents aren't going on to land registry to find the name of owners to verify whether you've sold or not, they'll probably get a hunch from speaking to you and decide if you're lying or not.

My MIP mentioned nothing about my current property, simply the amount that I could borrow. So if the property is 200k and you have cash in bank of 20k and MIP of 180k then technically you can afford it so the estate agent isn't going to assume you need to sell your current property, because on paper it doesn't look like you have to. I don't see a world where an agent goes Sherlock Holmes when the numbers add up...

But as I've stated upthread, with any financial transaction, do not be tempted to lie.

pinkshoes

custardly said:

The area we live in is a really hot market and we think we will sell within a week or two. 

Would your house be the type to be bought by a first time buyer? As otherwise you will create an even longer chain which is what the vendor is clearly trying to avoid.

You would then have to do EXACTLY as the vendor is doing, and insist that only first time buyers purchase your house as to not create a long chain.

If I were the vendor and found out that you'd then got to sell a house which would generate a chain, I would look to switching to another buyer that was more honest and either chain free or a guaranteed chain of one. 

MobileSaver

letom said:

in my experience not till late in the process (when lawyers start talking about exhcnage dates) would they probably find out.

There's a massive difference here though; the property listing specifically states "only accept viewings and offers from people who are able to proceed immediately (no house to sell)" and so I would expect the EA to be much more rigorous in confirming this than with the vast majority of the properties they market.

It's a shame really as I'm sure most people would prefer the OP to be caught later in the process once it's cost them several thousand pounds after the seller tells them where to go.

Mutton_Geoff

custardly said:

There is a house for sale that we are interested in and the listing states that they will only accept viewings and offers from people who are able to proceed immediately (no house to sell).

We haven't put our house on the market yet. However, we are going to pretend that we have nothing to sell. 

For proof of funds we have a mortgage agreement in principle and cash in the bank. 

The area we live in is a really hot market and we think we will sell within a week or two. 

We are not interested in the ethical side of things but want to know when we are likely to be found out by the seller and their estate agent? Would it be much later on in the process?

We will of course be upfront with our solicitor.

Prepare to waste a couple of k, people's time and then be sorely disappointed as a proceedable buyer overtakes you. Why not just be honest and tell the agent your position? After a few weeks on the market, I bet the vendors demands loosen a little.

letom

MobileSaver said:

letom said:

in my experience not till late in the process (when lawyers start talking about exhcnage dates) would they probably find out.

There's a massive difference here though; the property listing specifically states "only accept viewings and offers from people who are able to proceed immediately (no house to sell)" and so I would expect the EA to be much more rigorous in confirming this than with the vast majority of the properties they market.

It's a shame really as I'm sure most people would prefer the OP to be caught later in the process once it's cost them several thousand pounds after the seller tells them where to go.

Again I don’t see the estate agent doing much more due diligence if the MIP+Cash in Bank = property price.

In an ideal world if I were the vendor I would compare offers by having the agent view full funds (deposit, stamp duty, MIP), LTV and other non financial metrics (are they FTB, do they have a lawyer already, do they ask the right questions) then only proceed with someone who looks like on balance more deliverable.

Mutton_Geoff

letom said:

Again I don’t see the estate agent doing much more due diligence if the MIP+Cash in Bank = property price.

Can I ask how many properties you have bought/sold?

The OP has already said they need to sell their house to provide funding therefore there must be a gap which even the most shiny suited agent on his first day at work will see straight through.