Hit and Run - Police not interested as there is no Personal Injury, even with evidence

user1977

crazydragon said:

user1977 said:

crazydragon said:

abeezar said:

[ Hit at the time: 20th sec ]

I became a victim of a Hit and Run where my car was damaged by a third party. The incident happened at night time 

I was able to get the evidence video of the third-party car coming out of a DRIVEWAY opposite where I had parked.
The video shows the car hitting my car and my car wobbling at the time of the hit.
The guys who hit the car came out to see the damage, visit the house they were parked to inform the members of the house, and then come out and drove off.
Because it was dark and also as the car lights were on - the registration number of the car is not seen.

Before I got video evidence, I went to the house and asked if they know about the incident,  they have a camera for any evidence. They denied it by texting me and do not know about the incident.

I filed a Hit and Run Police report - the police came back with insufficient information and closed the case.

I then spoke to the case officer and she said they need the Vehicle Registration number - which I explained ..boss.. I have given you the house number/address
on which the car was parked and hit my car..so isn't that enough .... NO...she said. ..and as there was no Personal Injury they cannot pursue it .....also one of the other case officers I spoke she said they don't have enough resources. I just wanted them to ask one question - can you ask ONE house about the incident?

When I asked her did she saw the video and it hit my car - she said the video did not have my car wobbling - so definitely she did not do her job.
I replied to the case officer to again view the video with specified timestamps.


Please can someone advise what are my best options?

Thanks in advance.

Regards
AB

Could you also make a DSAR request on the neighbour to compel disclosure of any cctv footage at the relevant time? 

Even if the neighbour has CCTV footage, and even if the DPA applies to such a domestic installation - who is the data subject making the request? Unless the OP was filmed (which doesn't sound the case) there's no need for anybody to hand over CCTV to them.

(and even if CCTV is handed over to a data subject, the data controller is entitled to redact everybody else in the footage...)

It would be the OP making the request. I would assume if the camera covers his car then he is presumably being captured getting into it.

But how would that help? The culprits weren't around at the same time.

crazydragon

user1977 said:

crazydragon said:

user1977 said:

crazydragon said:

abeezar said:

[ Hit at the time: 20th sec ]

I became a victim of a Hit and Run where my car was damaged by a third party. The incident happened at night time 

I was able to get the evidence video of the third-party car coming out of a DRIVEWAY opposite where I had parked.
The video shows the car hitting my car and my car wobbling at the time of the hit.
The guys who hit the car came out to see the damage, visit the house they were parked to inform the members of the house, and then come out and drove off.
Because it was dark and also as the car lights were on - the registration number of the car is not seen.

Before I got video evidence, I went to the house and asked if they know about the incident,  they have a camera for any evidence. They denied it by texting me and do not know about the incident.

I filed a Hit and Run Police report - the police came back with insufficient information and closed the case.

I then spoke to the case officer and she said they need the Vehicle Registration number - which I explained ..boss.. I have given you the house number/address
on which the car was parked and hit my car..so isn't that enough .... NO...she said. ..and as there was no Personal Injury they cannot pursue it .....also one of the other case officers I spoke she said they don't have enough resources. I just wanted them to ask one question - can you ask ONE house about the incident?

When I asked her did she saw the video and it hit my car - she said the video did not have my car wobbling - so definitely she did not do her job.
I replied to the case officer to again view the video with specified timestamps.


Please can someone advise what are my best options?

Thanks in advance.

Regards
AB

Could you also make a DSAR request on the neighbour to compel disclosure of any cctv footage at the relevant time? 

Even if the neighbour has CCTV footage, and even if the DPA applies to such a domestic installation - who is the data subject making the request? Unless the OP was filmed (which doesn't sound the case) there's no need for anybody to hand over CCTV to them.

(and even if CCTV is handed over to a data subject, the data controller is entitled to redact everybody else in the footage...)

It would be the OP making the request. I would assume if the camera covers his car then he is presumably being captured getting into it.

But how would that help? The culprits weren't around at the same time.

1. You assume that the householder will spend hours going through the footage in the period requested to redact it, rather than just hand it over as a block. I would wager the latter is far more common in the realms of normal people lacking redaction software, even if not strictly in line with legislation (which is for the neighbour to comply with and if they fail to do so that’s their problem, not OP). You don’t know what evidence you may end up getting if you don’t try.

2. is there not an argument that if the licence plate is visible during the entire relevant period the OP has an entitlement to that footage? It’s personal data being recorded in a public place… 

3. OP’s aim is to get the neighbour to tell them who damaged their car. The neighbours may well realise upon things escalating in the form of a DSAR request or letter that the easiest and most sensible thing is to just tell him. Personally I think most normal people who received that or a letter referencing a possible court application would think about do they really want to be getting into that. It’s the whole point of pre action correspondence - to try and sort it out without things having to escalate further.

user1977

Or the neighbours just delete the relevant footage (if they even have it).

DullGreyGuy

crazydragon said:

user1977 said:

crazydragon said:

user1977 said:

crazydragon said:

abeezar said:

[ Hit at the time: 20th sec ]

I became a victim of a Hit and Run where my car was damaged by a third party. The incident happened at night time 

I was able to get the evidence video of the third-party car coming out of a DRIVEWAY opposite where I had parked.
The video shows the car hitting my car and my car wobbling at the time of the hit.
The guys who hit the car came out to see the damage, visit the house they were parked to inform the members of the house, and then come out and drove off.
Because it was dark and also as the car lights were on - the registration number of the car is not seen.

Before I got video evidence, I went to the house and asked if they know about the incident,  they have a camera for any evidence. They denied it by texting me and do not know about the incident.

I filed a Hit and Run Police report - the police came back with insufficient information and closed the case.

I then spoke to the case officer and she said they need the Vehicle Registration number - which I explained ..boss.. I have given you the house number/address
on which the car was parked and hit my car..so isn't that enough .... NO...she said. ..and as there was no Personal Injury they cannot pursue it .....also one of the other case officers I spoke she said they don't have enough resources. I just wanted them to ask one question - can you ask ONE house about the incident?

When I asked her did she saw the video and it hit my car - she said the video did not have my car wobbling - so definitely she did not do her job.
I replied to the case officer to again view the video with specified timestamps.


Please can someone advise what are my best options?

Thanks in advance.

Regards
AB

Could you also make a DSAR request on the neighbour to compel disclosure of any cctv footage at the relevant time? 

Even if the neighbour has CCTV footage, and even if the DPA applies to such a domestic installation - who is the data subject making the request? Unless the OP was filmed (which doesn't sound the case) there's no need for anybody to hand over CCTV to them.

(and even if CCTV is handed over to a data subject, the data controller is entitled to redact everybody else in the footage...)

It would be the OP making the request. I would assume if the camera covers his car then he is presumably being captured getting into it.

But how would that help? The culprits weren't around at the same time.

1. You assume that the householder will spend hours going through the footage in the period requested to redact it, rather than just hand it over as a block. I would wager the latter is far more common in the realms of normal people lacking redaction software, even if not strictly in line with legislation (which is for the neighbour to comply with and if they fail to do so that’s their problem, not OP). You don’t know what evidence you may end up getting if you don’t try.

2. is there not an argument that if the licence plate is visible during the entire relevant period the OP has an entitlement to that footage? It’s personal data being recorded in a public place… 

3. OP’s aim is to get the neighbour to tell them who damaged their car. The neighbours may well realise upon things escalating in the form of a DSAR request or letter that the easiest and most sensible thing is to just tell him. Personally I think most normal people who received that or a letter referencing a possible court application would think about do they really want to be getting into that. It’s the whole point of pre action correspondence - to try and sort it out without things having to escalate further.

The OPs own cam presumably has a timestamp so it comes down to the kit the neighbour has... takes a few seconds to sample a 5 minute window of CCTV using most smart systems.

As an insurer have received hundreds of samples of CCTV (before the days of dash cams and smart doorbells) on the grounds without the data owner wanting to redact on the basis of them containing an RTC. Just in the same way the DVLA will handover the registered keeper of a vehicle in the same scenario. 

Jumblebumble

crazydragon said:

abeezar said:

[ Hit at the time: 20th sec ]

I became a victim of a Hit and Run where my car was damaged by a third party. The incident happened at night time 

I was able to get the evidence video of the third-party car coming out of a DRIVEWAY opposite where I had parked.
The video shows the car hitting my car and my car wobbling at the time of the hit.
The guys who hit the car came out to see the damage, visit the house they were parked to inform the members of the house, and then come out and drove off.
Because it was dark and also as the car lights were on - the registration number of the car is not seen.

Before I got video evidence, I went to the house and asked if they know about the incident,  they have a camera for any evidence. They denied it by texting me and do not know about the incident.

I filed a Hit and Run Police report - the police came back with insufficient information and closed the case.

I then spoke to the case officer and she said they need the Vehicle Registration number - which I explained ..boss.. I have given you the house number/address
on which the car was parked and hit my car..so isn't that enough .... NO...she said. ..and as there was no Personal Injury they cannot pursue it .....also one of the other case officers I spoke she said they don't have enough resources. I just wanted them to ask one question - can you ask ONE house about the incident?

When I asked her did she saw the video and it hit my car - she said the video did not have my car wobbling - so definitely she did not do her job.
I replied to the case officer to again view the video with specified timestamps.


Please can someone advise what are my best options?

Thanks in advance.

Regards
AB

Might be worth reading up on Norwich Pharmacal Orders - from my understanding they are a mechanism for getting information out of third parties without which you would be unable to identify someone you have a claim against.

Could you also make a DSAR request on the neighbour to compel disclosure of any cctv footage at the relevant time? 

An option could be a letter to the neighbour making the DSAR request, demanding they provide details of the car that left their property at x or y which must be known to them otherwise you reserve the right to make a court application requiring them to provide that info and you’ll ask the court to order them to pay your costs. Possibly OTT depending on the value of the damage and you’d need to read up to check it’s a feasible way forward/one you feel comfortable progressing, but you’d hope the neighbour would see sense and do the right thing if faced with that.

Good luck whatever route you go, I’d be fuming in your shoes!

I assume that you do not have children/ young adults living at home who may have mates who park on your drive while you are out and who are prone to not wishing to share with you who these mates are.
If you came "demanding" anything from me you would get short shrift as I don't much like being told what to do as I am not 12 years old

crazydragon

Jumblebumble said:

crazydragon said:

abeezar said:

[ Hit at the time: 20th sec ]

I became a victim of a Hit and Run where my car was damaged by a third party. The incident happened at night time 

I was able to get the evidence video of the third-party car coming out of a DRIVEWAY opposite where I had parked.
The video shows the car hitting my car and my car wobbling at the time of the hit.
The guys who hit the car came out to see the damage, visit the house they were parked to inform the members of the house, and then come out and drove off.
Because it was dark and also as the car lights were on - the registration number of the car is not seen.

Before I got video evidence, I went to the house and asked if they know about the incident,  they have a camera for any evidence. They denied it by texting me and do not know about the incident.

I filed a Hit and Run Police report - the police came back with insufficient information and closed the case.

I then spoke to the case officer and she said they need the Vehicle Registration number - which I explained ..boss.. I have given you the house number/address
on which the car was parked and hit my car..so isn't that enough .... NO...she said. ..and as there was no Personal Injury they cannot pursue it .....also one of the other case officers I spoke she said they don't have enough resources. I just wanted them to ask one question - can you ask ONE house about the incident?

When I asked her did she saw the video and it hit my car - she said the video did not have my car wobbling - so definitely she did not do her job.
I replied to the case officer to again view the video with specified timestamps.


Please can someone advise what are my best options?

Thanks in advance.

Regards
AB

Might be worth reading up on Norwich Pharmacal Orders - from my understanding they are a mechanism for getting information out of third parties without which you would be unable to identify someone you have a claim against.

Could you also make a DSAR request on the neighbour to compel disclosure of any cctv footage at the relevant time? 

An option could be a letter to the neighbour making the DSAR request, demanding they provide details of the car that left their property at x or y which must be known to them otherwise you reserve the right to make a court application requiring them to provide that info and you’ll ask the court to order them to pay your costs. Possibly OTT depending on the value of the damage and you’d need to read up to check it’s a feasible way forward/one you feel comfortable progressing, but you’d hope the neighbour would see sense and do the right thing if faced with that.

Good luck whatever route you go, I’d be fuming in your shoes!

I assume that you do not have children/ young adults living at home who may have mates who park on your drive while you are out and who are prone to not wishing to share with you who these mates are.
If you came "demanding" anything from me you would get short shrift as I don't much like being told what to do as I am not 12 years old

I do have children and safe to say nobody would be parking on my drive without my or my wife’s permission (joys of establishing boundaries/two way respect), nor is the company they keep as such that they wouldn’t divulge who had crashed into the neighbour’s car if that ever happened. Even if OP’s neighbour’s children are on the dodgy and secretive side, fortunately the neighbour has a camera which would easily answer the question.

It’s a shame that despite your insistence on not being 12 years old, you appear to think there’s no issue with someone damaging another’s property and not taking responsibility for that. I fear for your neighbour’s cars! 

Jumblebumble

crazydragon said:

Jumblebumble said:

crazydragon said:

abeezar said:

[ Hit at the time: 20th sec ]

I became a victim of a Hit and Run where my car was damaged by a third party. The incident happened at night time 

I was able to get the evidence video of the third-party car coming out of a DRIVEWAY opposite where I had parked.
The video shows the car hitting my car and my car wobbling at the time of the hit.
The guys who hit the car came out to see the damage, visit the house they were parked to inform the members of the house, and then come out and drove off.
Because it was dark and also as the car lights were on - the registration number of the car is not seen.

Before I got video evidence, I went to the house and asked if they know about the incident,  they have a camera for any evidence. They denied it by texting me and do not know about the incident.

I filed a Hit and Run Police report - the police came back with insufficient information and closed the case.

I then spoke to the case officer and she said they need the Vehicle Registration number - which I explained ..boss.. I have given you the house number/address
on which the car was parked and hit my car..so isn't that enough .... NO...she said. ..and as there was no Personal Injury they cannot pursue it .....also one of the other case officers I spoke she said they don't have enough resources. I just wanted them to ask one question - can you ask ONE house about the incident?

When I asked her did she saw the video and it hit my car - she said the video did not have my car wobbling - so definitely she did not do her job.
I replied to the case officer to again view the video with specified timestamps.


Please can someone advise what are my best options?

Thanks in advance.

Regards
AB

Might be worth reading up on Norwich Pharmacal Orders - from my understanding they are a mechanism for getting information out of third parties without which you would be unable to identify someone you have a claim against.

Could you also make a DSAR request on the neighbour to compel disclosure of any cctv footage at the relevant time? 

An option could be a letter to the neighbour making the DSAR request, demanding they provide details of the car that left their property at x or y which must be known to them otherwise you reserve the right to make a court application requiring them to provide that info and you’ll ask the court to order them to pay your costs. Possibly OTT depending on the value of the damage and you’d need to read up to check it’s a feasible way forward/one you feel comfortable progressing, but you’d hope the neighbour would see sense and do the right thing if faced with that.

Good luck whatever route you go, I’d be fuming in your shoes!

I assume that you do not have children/ young adults living at home who may have mates who park on your drive while you are out and who are prone to not wishing to share with you who these mates are.
If you came "demanding" anything from me you would get short shrift as I don't much like being told what to do as I am not 12 years old

I do have children and safe to say nobody would be parking on my drive without my or my wife’s permission (joys of establishing boundaries/two way respect), nor is the company they keep as such that they wouldn’t divulge who had crashed into the neighbour’s car if that ever happened. Even if OP’s neighbour’s children are on the dodgy and secretive side, fortunately the neighbour has a camera which would easily answer the question.

It’s a shame that despite your insistence on not being 12 years old, you appear to think there’s no issue with someone damaging another’s property and not taking responsibility for that. I fear for your neighbour’s cars! 

You misunderstand
Not everyone has Children who will respect boundaries.
Not everyone has Teenagers who do not suffer from Mental Illness.
You are blessed if you don't have such issues

I was simply saying that if anyone comes and "demands anything"  they will not get a favourable outcome
Of course there is an issue with others damaging  peoples cars
Your neighbours camera has not helped the OP

cymruchris

You could put your footage with time and date into local facebook groups saying you were the victim of a hit and run - asking other residents in the area to have a look at their cameras around the time of your incident. You may find there's someone 500m up the road that will have the car on camera driving past seconds after it leaves your house and showing a reg number. (Although it is unlikely at night as many domestic cameras with infra red have difficulty with number plates as they reflect the light). 

abeezar

Update I was able to get the VRM number as the third-party car frequently parks there. I have passed on the details to the Police who will issue Form 963 and also informed my Insurance. Police and Insurance can't do much if the third party refuses to accept.

Car_54

abeezar said:

Update I was able to get the VRM number as the third-party car frequently parks there. I have passed on the details to the Police who will issue Form 953 and also informed my Insurance. Police and Insurance can't do much if the third party refuses to accept.

What's a Form 953? Is it your local plod's name for a Section 172 notice?