Please come back

Pensions_matter_2

This last post struck me - when I think about it, the culture I experienced in the first 20 or so years of my career was vastly different from the remaining years, after the credit crunch. Employees were not as valued latterly, even while the demands were much higher, and performance reviews seriously demotivated people. The worst of it is that younger workers will have experienced nothing better and will see it as the norm, which is sadly self-perpetuating as they move into senior roles. Im not sure if this is the same across all industries, but perhaps this shortage of workers will encourage a shift back to improved working environments in many industries.

calcotti

barnstar2077 said:

My work culture is toxic. 

That seems to be a major contributing factor for lots of people who want to leave or reduce work. The ‘quality audit’ culture has lost sight of purpose and tick box and reporting culture actually prevents many people from carrying out their work to their own satisfaction.

barnstar2077

Pensions_matter_2 said:

This last post struck me - when I think about it, the culture I experienced in the first 20 or so years of my career was vastly different from the remaining years, after the credit crunch. Employees were not as valued latterly, even while the demands were much higher, and performance reviews seriously demotivated people. The worst of it is that younger workers will have experienced nothing better and will see it as the norm, which is sadly self-perpetuating as they move into senior roles. Im not sure if this is the same across all industries, but perhaps this shortage of workers will encourage a shift back to improved working environments in many industries.

I remember telling my boss, when I was taken on full time, that I was happy working there as they had a family atmosphere.  Twenty years later and I am a number on a spreadsheet.

We see the same thing, the young people starting don't know any different and won't stand up for themselves if they are treated unfairly. 

Miiade

As a meter reader I find it physically exhausting as they keeping demanding more and more reads out of you. At 52, I can’t see me making it to 60, as the body will be done. If I could go part time at 55, I think I could continue a bit a longer but am not sure they will allow this. Totally understand why some people are retiring early if they can.

calcotti

Nebulous2 said:

I had enough last year at 59, did my sums found I could and decided to leave. Very quickly I decided I wasn't ready to retire..

Retirement to me now feels like a process, rather than an event.

More importantly however I found the adjustment from full-time work to not working more complicated than I expected. 

Similar experience for me. Couldn’t manage the stress anymore and stopped at 25 with no long term plan but financially sound. Gardening and DIY took me through 12 months. Then volunteered for a couple of years and this turned into a paid job which turned into the most satisfying work of my life. Have now just retired again (for various reasons) and I miss the purpose of work.

J63320

Miiade said:

As a meter reader I find it physically exhausting as they keeping demanding more and more reads out of you. At 52, I can’t see me making it to 60, as the body will be done. If I could go part time at 55, I think I could continue a bit a longer but am not sure they will allow this. Totally understand why some people are retiring early if they can.

A meter reader came to my door. He seemed inordinately pleased to find me at home. Then he only wanted to read the gas meter - I’d had a reading queried as being too low when I submitted it online, but it was summer and we only used gas for the central heating.
Thinking about it afterwards, I realised that he was probably only paid for the readings he took. If I’d been out he would have had to come back again and again until he found me in.
This is what “competition” in the energy market has given us. How do you compete to sell the same product as everyone else, unless you cut your costs to the bone? And all those who advocate switching to the cheapest possible deal (sorry Martin, that includes you) are part of the problem.
I know this looks a bit off-topic, but what I’m trying to say is that a lot of toxic work culture is the result of businesses competing to give consumers - that’s us - the rock-bottom prices we demand.

waveydavey48

Why do we always hear about a fixed age for people retiring, be it 55, 60, 65 or 70 when we all started at different ages?

I started full time employment at 16 and studied "A" levels then professional exams whilst working full time (and doing overtime), at evening college. 

I remember PM David Cameron saying, effectively, that we should all work pretty much until we die.  I did wonder how old he was when he entered full time employment. 21 , 23, 25 maybe?

EdSwippet

zagfles said:
While all the above are relevant in some areas, by far the main labour shortages are in low paid employment sectors rather than sectors where people are likely to be troubled by the LTA, personal allowance withdrawal, or even higher rate tax.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/how-has-the-pandemic-affected-industries-and-labour-in-the-uk/

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/15/pounds-60m-in-uk-crops-left-to-rot-lack-of-workers-nfu-farming

Potentially a reductionist view. As a data point of one, I'd have no particular problem entering a job in hospitality, or manufacturing, or distribution, or retail, even though they make absolutely no use whatsoever of any of my qualifications. In fact, I'd enjoy the change of pace from my former job in IT.

But, I have LTA and higher rate tax considerations that together strongly disincentivise a return to paid work. At the margin, after NI, tax, loss of employer pension contributions, and so on, I'd probably be lucky to see 40% of the compensation package offered. No thanks.

Martin_the_Unjust

I know some won’t like this but one of (if not the only) benefit of brexit is that, with the reduction in the availability of workers, it has given some power back to those working in the lower paid jobs.

zagfles

barnstar2077 said:

Pensions_matter_2 said:

This last post struck me - when I think about it, the culture I experienced in the first 20 or so years of my career was vastly different from the remaining years, after the credit crunch. Employees were not as valued latterly, even while the demands were much higher, and performance reviews seriously demotivated people. The worst of it is that younger workers will have experienced nothing better and will see it as the norm, which is sadly self-perpetuating as they move into senior roles. Im not sure if this is the same across all industries, but perhaps this shortage of workers will encourage a shift back to improved working environments in many industries.

I remember telling my boss, when I was taken on full time, that I was happy working there as they had a family atmosphere.  Twenty years later and I am a number on a spreadsheet.

We see the same thing, the young people starting don't know any different and won't stand up for themselves if they are treated unfairly. 

Yes there's definitely been an increase in the tick box culture over the last couple of decades or so, the "number on a spreadsheet", targets and measures, you're data, not an individual. Everything needs to be assessed and justified by measurable data, and simple data that's easy for people who don't necessarily understand the job (like HR) to understand.

The problem is, a complex job can't be assessed by simple metrics. In the old days, the boss would understand the complexity of the job and would understand who was enthustiasic and would take on the hard stuff, relish the challenge of getting involved in areas they're not familiar with, and who were the plodders, who just wanted an easy life doing routine stuff rather than anything challenging. Who the people were who everyone went to when they had a problem, who were the people to avoid if you wanted to ask a hard question or need help with something hard.

Measuring output generally favours the plodders who'd pick all the easy mundane stuff, rather than those who preferred the challenge of doing the hard, new, unfamiliar stuff, and would also favour those who weren't distracted by people wanting help.

So the best employees weren't necessarily those with the highest output. Like top surgeons, who often have a higher death rate because they do the most difficult cases. The trouble is real measures of employees' value tends to be subjective, ie depends on the competance and integrity of the boss. And subjective measures sometimes lead to accusations of discrimination, and so companies now tend to avoid them, and want everything justified with numbers.

The Mid Staffs hospital scandal should have been the wake up call on what happens if you obsess over simple targets and measures, rather actual competance and ability in a job which can't usually be judged by numbers on a spreadsheet.