Citroen Ami

CoastingHatbox

I don't think EVs are the complete solution to the personal mobility/environment issue, but I do like the Citroen Ami.

https://www.citroen.co.uk/ami

If I had to make regular urban journies, I would get back on my bike and cycle them. However if I was unable to, then this would be a serious contender.
It's doesn't really solve my current transport needs - a periodic ~350 mile round trip every 2 to 3 months and regular (fortnightly) 45 mile round trip across country.

There is rumoured to be a higher powered version with a higher top speed in the works.

Grumpy_chap

The Ami is a funky little thing, but possibly solving a problem that does not exist.

For your needs, an EV could still provide the solution, with either a recharge stop en-route for the 350 mile round trip or hire an ICE those 4 to 6 times per year.

Herzlos

It's a bit of a niche for city useage - but a top speed of 28mph isn't a problem when you're struggling to average 10mph!

So I can see them being popular as 2nd cars for people in urban areas.

Not much use for us out in the sticks - I'm less than a mile in any direction before hitting a 60 zone, but I'd be all for having something similar that could get to maybe 50ish.

Ectophile

Grumpy_chap said:

The Ami is a funky little thing, but possibly solving a problem that does not exist.

For your needs, an EV could still provide the solution, with either a recharge stop en-route for the 350 mile round trip or hire an ICE those 4 to 6 times per year.

In France it's a moped substitute, and can be driven by teenagers.  In this country, you need a full licence, but it's still essentially an alternative to a moped.  Slow, and quite short range.  But sitting in a plastic box means you won't get rained on.  And it's likely to be safer.

I'm waiting for the Microlino to reach the UK.  Twice as fast, and much longer range.  But more expensive.

facade

I was very impressed, and quite keen at the originally suggested £6000. 28 mph is a bit slow, but there aren't many roads near me where the speed limit is above 30.

However, the price is nearer £8000, or £3,200 to just borrow one for 2 years which makes it very expensive for what it is.

It looks more like a £3000 car plus a £1,500 battery to me

There was some rumour of renting them for commuting at an extortionate price (22p) per minute. Imagine taking an hour to travel 10 miles and paying  £13.20!

CoastingHatbox

Grumpy_chap said:

The Ami is a funky little thing, but possibly solving a problem that does not exist.

For your needs, an EV could still provide the solution, with either a recharge stop en-route for the 350 mile round trip or hire an ICE those 4 to 6 times per year.

I think it's solving a problem for suburban commuters possibly. But for many a bicycle would work just as well and be a lot cheaper.

Sadly I often don't have enough notice to book a hire vehicle and then go and collect it. On occasion I've had to make the trip at very short notice. I think I'm better keeping and continuing to use the vehicle I've got. By the time it's about to expire, I'm hoping I no longer need a motorised vehicle.

CoastingHatbox

facade said:

I was very impressed, and quite keen at the originally suggested £6000. 28 mph is a bit slow, but there aren't many roads near me where the speed limit is above 30.

At £6,000 it would be a lot more tempting. Especially thinking back to when I'd just passed my driving test and just entered the world of work.

Goudy

I don't think this is suitable for the city/urban transport, actually far from it.

Parking spots are pretty much a standard size, it's not going to free up space there.

It's not narrow enough to filter like a scooter or motorbike, so it's nose to tail with all the other traffic still.
Lanes are pretty much a standard width and it's not like you can reduce the width and create more lanes if those lanes needs to fit a buses and lorries.

Cities are filled with buses, delivery vans and the likes that would be tempted to bully something like this on the packed roads, particularly when it's common knowledge it's limited to 28mph. Yes, the average speed in cities are low, but the bits in between junctions and snarl ups can be pretty hairy. You're going to feel pretty close to God on the North Circular on any given day!

It's narrow track isn't going to make traversing those square traffic claiming blocks that appear on nearly every side street easy.

It's wheel base is pretty short which is going to cause some comfortable moments on the full road width traffic claiming bumps.

As for a second car for an urbanite, parking is at a premium and that premium is almost certainly a costly one which would mean forking out to the local council more money for another permit, something which might not be possible anyway if the permit scheme is fully subscribed. Doubling up cars isn't a solution to a problem, it just exasperates the problem.

Over the years we've seen similar tiny vehicles come and go and everyone said they were the answer.
Turns out everyone was wrong.
Even way back in the 50's you could buy the likes of an Isetta or the KR200, a Robin or a Mini, look where they ended up. They lasted a few years or ended up as fat cars like the rest of them.
And what about the Renault Twizy, was that popular? There's less than 500 on the road which makes me think not.

I think the correct term is there is a problem but this isn't the solution.

Grumpy_chap

Goudy said:

I don't think this is suitable for the city/urban transport, actually far from it.

Parking spots are pretty much a standard size, it's not going to free up space there.

It's not narrow enough to filter like a scooter or motorbike, so it's nose to tail with all the other traffic still.
Lanes are pretty much a standard width and it's not like you can reduce the width and create more lanes if those lanes needs to fit a buses and lorries.

Cities are filled with buses, delivery vans and the likes that would be tempted to bully something like this on the packed roads, particularly when it's common knowledge it's limited to 28mph. Yes, the average speed in cities are low, but the bits in between junctions and snarl ups can be pretty hairy. You're going to feel pretty close to God on the North Circular on any given day!

It's narrow track isn't going to make traversing those square traffic claiming blocks that appear on nearly every side street easy.

It's wheel base is pretty short which is going to cause some comfortable moments on the full road width traffic claiming bumps.

As for a second car for an urbanite, parking is at a premium and that premium is almost certainly a costly one which would mean forking out to the local council more money for another permit, something which might not be possible anyway if the permit scheme is fully subscribed. Doubling up cars isn't a solution to a problem, it just exasperates the problem.

Over the years we've seen similar tiny vehicles come and go and everyone said they were the answer.
Turns out everyone was wrong.
Even way back in the 50's you could buy the likes of an Isetta or the KR200, a Robin or a Mini, look where they ended up. They lasted a few years or ended up as fat cars like the rest of them.
And what about the Renault Twizy, was that popular? There's less than 500 on the road which makes me think not.

I think the correct term is there is a problem but this isn't the solution.

The Robin and the Mini were both successful for many years.

In fact, while the Mini was always a car, the Robin was more akin to the Ami, with the motorised tricycle classification allowing it to be driven on a motorcycle license.

The Mini did not put on weight until it was well into middle age and BMW invested to create an entirely different vehicle with retro styling cues.  The weight gain is closely linked to meeting current safety needs.

I suspect a 4-seater micro-car is not possible together with modern safety design, hence vehicles such as the Smart Car are as close as you get.

facade

Goudy said:

I don't think this is suitable for the city/urban transport, actually far from it.

Parking spots are pretty much a standard size, it's not going to free up space there.

It's not narrow enough to filter like a scooter or motorbike, so it's nose to tail with all the other traffic still.
Lanes are pretty much a standard width and it's not like you can reduce the width and create more lanes if those lanes needs to fit a buses and lorries.

Cities are filled with buses, delivery vans and the likes that would be tempted to bully something like this on the packed roads, particularly when it's common knowledge it's limited to 28mph. Yes, the average speed in cities are low, but the bits in between junctions and snarl ups can be pretty hairy. You're going to feel pretty close to God on the North Circular on any given day!

It's narrow track isn't going to make traversing those square traffic claiming blocks that appear on nearly every side street easy.

It's wheel base is pretty short which is going to cause some comfortable moments on the full road width traffic claiming bumps.

As for a second car for an urbanite, parking is at a premium and that premium is almost certainly a costly one which would mean forking out to the local council more money for another permit, something which might not be possible anyway if the permit scheme is fully subscribed. Doubling up cars isn't a solution to a problem, it just exasperates the problem.

Over the years we've seen similar tiny vehicles come and go and everyone said they were the answer.
Turns out everyone was wrong.
Even way back in the 50's you could buy the likes of an Isetta or the KR200, a Robin or a Mini, look where they ended up. They lasted a few years or ended up as fat cars like the rest of them.
And what about the Renault Twizy, was that popular? There's less than 500 on the road which makes me think not.

I think the correct term is there is a problem but this isn't the solution.

If you watch some of the youtube reviews, the ride is atrocious.

The heater/demister is pretty bad too, rather like a series Landrover if you've driven one in the wet

I love the idea- a proper fiat 500 sized electric car, ideal for shopping runs and nipping to hospital appointments (it is small enough to actually fit into a carpark space and be able to open a door), but I'm put off by

1) the high price

2) the terrible ride (if it rode like a 2CV rather than a fiesta ST I'd be very interested)

3) poor heating/demisting - I suspect it is a dry warm weather car.

4) did I mention the high price?

I suppose an old Nissan Leaf would suit me, apart from the huge size, and the fact that they are made in Sunderland.

(I have a Sunderland built Nissan, it makes my old Maestro look like it was built by Rolls Royce- It is a good job they don't build ships )

Goudy

Yes those were successful, were being the operative word.
All the others and many more, came and went in the blink of an eye.
Cars are actually getting bigger, look at the size of the original Golf compared to today. 
Ford are pulling the Fiesta for what? Something smaller or something bigger like an SUV.

If there is ever a push for these types of Micro cars, we only need to look at Japan and their Kei car culture.
They legislated for them. The government restricted dimensions, engine capacity, speed limits etc but they also promoted their use by offering tax and insurance benefits, they didn't require garage certificates to prove you had somewhere to park them either.

They work, Kei cars make up around 40% of new car sales over there even after they imposed higher taxes on them in 2014.

Unfortunately, we have never embraced these tiny cars, they've never sold enough to make any difference and probably won't until laws change.