Barclays 1 & 2 year flexible fixed rate ISAs - one of each?

howryoo

Thanks refluxer - that's what I've always thought; that you can open multiple ISAs, provided you only subscribe (pay in that years' allowance) to one ISA.

But from the Barclays T&Cs for their flexible ISA, the below bold highlighted confuses me:

Opening your Flexible Cash ISA

The amount you first put into your Flexible Cash ISA, whether or not you’re transferring the money in from another ISA, must be the minimum balance we allow or more.

Under the Individual Savings Account Regulations 1998 (the ‘ISA regulations’), you can’t apply for the Flexible ISA if you have already subscribed to a cash ISA, or have already subscribed the maximum amount allowed to any combination of permitted ISAs, either with us or any other ISA provider, in the same tax year as you are applying for this Flexible ISA.

There are two exceptions to this:

–if you have already subscribed to a cash ISA this tax year, you must transfer at least the current tax year subscriptions in the existing cash ISA (whether it’s held with us or another ISA provider) into your new Flexible Cash ISA. You must make sure your transfer is permitted under the ISA regulations.

–if you’ve already used your annual ISA allowance for this tax year in other types of ISAs, you must transfer at least the current year’s subscriptions from one of those other ISA types into your new Flexible Cash ISA.

I guess they're only referring to new funds, but the application process seems to force you to confirm that you want to apply for the '6th April 2022 to 5th April 2023 tax year' before allowing you to also tick the transferring in option and progressing?

refluxer

Yes, whenever they use the word 'subscribe', they're taking about funding an ISA with 'new money' from the current tax year and not a transfer from an ISA which contains subscriptions from previous tax years.

I can't comment on the application process unfortunately, as I haven't applied for one myself yet but it does sound (as it often does) like the wording is heavily geared towards new subscriptions and not transfers, which can make things confusing.

howryoo

Sorry for coming back to this, but I want to be sure that if I opened a second account, I won't be tripping up with HMRC / ISA rules?

@AlwaysLearnin - as you've applied for both accounts, were you also forced to tick the box to confirm you're applying for the 2022-23 tax, despite your first account only being for funds to be transferred in?

AlwaysLearnin

I can't recall specifically, but I would guess so - pretty sure you can only open ISAs in the current tax year.

I opened the first one with a zero balance, for a transfer of a previous year amount - no current year subscription (ie no payment of 'new money' in the current tax year).  I opened the second and subscribed/paid in a nominal amount (being my only subscription/payment of 'new money' to a cash ISA in this tax year).

This meets the requirement of only paying in to (/subscribing) to one cash ISA in the current tax year.

howryoo

Thanks @AlwaysLearnin

So you've two accounts showing in your list?

I just wanted to make sure they didn't think I had two 2022-23 ISA accounts.  I've already funded my first account with new money, so the transfer in should be fine.

I'm sure some providers are more clearer during the application process in declaring if the funds (if transferring in) are from prior years and / or containing current year funds etc.  Maybe I'm imagining it? 

andyhicks88

I don't see how this is possible and people are doing it because when i went to open one yesterday it was making me fund the account as part of the process, so if you open two then you need to fund two....which isn't allowed is it?/

AlwaysLearnin

howryoo said:

Thanks @AlwaysLearnin

So you've two accounts showing in your list?

Yes     
.

AlwaysLearnin

andyhicks88 said:

I don't see how this is possible and people are doing it because when i went to open one yesterday it was making me fund the account as part of the process, so if you open two then you need to fund two....which isn't allowed is it?/

They specifically say you can open with a zero balance if transfering in

https://www.barclays.co.uk/savings/isas/1-year-flexible-cash-isa/

TiVo_Lad

I can see there's a bit of confusion over "opening" an ISA and "subscribing" to an ISA which often catches people out. They're not interchangeable terms.

You can open as many ISAs as you like in a tax year as this allows you to move your existing ISA money around to get the best rate, or switch back and forth between Cash and Stocks and Shares ISAs.

BUT, you can ONLY subscribe to one Cash ISA and one Stocks and Shares ISA in a given tax year. You subscribe to an ISA when you pay in new money for the first time in a given tax year. You might subscribe to an ISA simply by paying in new money to an ISA account that you already have open, or you might open a brand new ISA account and pay in money to that. Either way, the action of paying new money in means you have subscribed to an ISA in that tax year. You cannot then put new money into another account as well.

Once you've subscribed, all the money you pay in during the current tax year (aka the subscription year) has to stay together in a single account. You're not allowed to break it up and transfer it to different accounts; you can only move it in its entirety to another account. Your previous year's subscriptions can new broken up and moved around as you like; it's the current year's subscriptions that need to be moved as a whole.

For example:

It's the start of the new Tax Year and you have £1,200 of new money that you want to put into an ISA. You have a couple of existing ISAs.

ISA Account X has £10,000 of past year's subscriptions

ISA Account Y has £15,000 of past year's subscriptions

You can pay the £1,200 into Account X, Account Y or open a new ISA (Account Z). Whichever option you choose, if you decide to move some money later, you MUST move the £1,200 in its entirety. Depending on which account it's in, you can move some or all of previous year's at the same time, but you can't move £1,000 of the £1,200 and leave the remaining £200 behind.

Essentially, your previous year's subscriptions can be moved around as you like, but your current year's must be moved altogether. You can't move some of it. This is basically to allow everyone to keep track of your current year's subscriptions and make sure you don't go over the £20K limit.

eskbanker

TiVo_Lad said:

For example:

It's the start of the new Tax Year and you have £1,200 of new money that you want to put into an ISA. You have a couple of existing ISAs.

ISA Account X has £10,000 of past year's subscriptions

ISA Account Y has £15,000 of past year's subscriptions

You can pay the £1,200 into Account X, Account Y or open a new ISA (Account Z). Whichever option you choose, if you decide to move some money later, you MUST move the £1,200 in its entirety. Depending on which account it's in, you can move some or all of previous year's at the same time, but you can't move £1,000 of the £1,200 and leave the remaining £200 behind.

I think that all comes across as more complicated than it needs to be, but worth bearing in mind that if you pay £1200 of new money into X or Y with plenty of old money in them already, then you can effectively transfer out as much as you like, because you wouldn't generally be moving £1000 of the £1200 as such, you're simply moving £1000, which can be deemed (not necessarily expressly) to be prior year money.  Your point does apply to the new ISA Z though....