Concerned about Sis's wanting enhanced mobility PIP

[Deleted User]

Hi all, my sister is obsessed with having her standard rate mobility moved to enhanced, she already gets enhanced daily living. I don't believe she's entitled to enhanced, she already gets 10 for psychological distress, meaning she can't go out due to distress, the only was she could get more points is is she needs to accompanied on familiar journey. She CANNOT leave the house at all, hasne been out in 3 years and lives alone and I've offered to take her out and been refused. Am I wrong about how the system works? She claims its the only way to get enhanced for mental health. But is sounds shady to me. Thanks

Spoonie_Turtle

This is what the PIP guidance has to say:

"A claimant who satisfies 1E cannot also satisfy 1F. If they cannot undertake a single journey on the majority of days due to overwhelming psychological distress, then 1E will be the applicable descriptor, even if there are occasions when they could follow a familiar route, if accompanied."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#mobility-activities

If she wanted to try for enhanced mobility she would need to show she does NOT satisfy 1e (the current 10 point descriptor) and that she does satisfy 1f, Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid.

People with mental health conditions can indeed get enhanced mobility if they do satisfy 1f and NOT 1e (or if they score enough points across both mobility activities, moving around as well as journeys).  The issue your sister needs to understand is whether she actually does satisfy 1f or not, and that she cannot if 1e is accurate for her.

Edit: she also needs to know that if she does ask for a reassessment, she risks lowering or losing her current award.  If her mental illness affects her capacity to make important decisions like this then it should be considered whether she needs an appointee to manage her claim (if that's not already the case).

Muttleythefrog

Deleted_User said:

Hi all, my sister is obsessed with having her standard rate mobility moved to enhanced, she already gets enhanced daily living. I don't believe she's entitled to enhanced, she already gets 10 for psychological distress, meaning she can't go out due to distress, the only was she could get more points is is she needs to accompanied on familiar journey. She CANNOT leave the house at all, hasne been out in 3 years and lives alone and I've offered to take her out and been refused. Am I wrong about how the system works? She claims its the only way to get enhanced for mental health. But is sounds shady to me. Thanks

Agree with Spoonie above. She could risk her likely correct award by pursuing this one way or another.

When I say likely correct I am inferring from what you've said that it is indeed psychological distress that means that leaving the home is almost always precluded and explanative of 'hasn't been out in 3 years...and I've offered to take her out and been refused.'

The guidance is quite clear that descriptor 1E will be applied even if 1F in theory does apply where 1E is applicable for the majority of the time... and actually that does make sense since giving someone support to overcome problems with 1F will not change the outcome that 1E will still be the experience and mobility unchanged. This is actually the case for me and the DWP accept it. She is essentially correct on her point about being the only way she can get enhanced unless there are physical problems too meaning Mobility activity 2 is considered.

I think sometimes... and may be applicable or not in this case (I'm sort of reading a bit into how you phrase what she says).... that because this is all set up like a cat and mouse game with the DWP trying to get properly assessed and accurately awarded there might remain in some claimants an almost game type mentality where you try to pursue greater victory.... and to some degree I've felt that myself. 

Best advice unless what we're inferring here is inaccurate is to advise them the decision is probably correct and quote to them what Spoonie has quoted to you from the PIP guidance. What would concern me that if they ever did try to argue 1F applies then they also would have to say 1E does not apply for the majority of the time and put at risk award of standard mobility. 

As an added point 1E does now give automatic entitlement to a blue badge (apply to local council)... while 1F does not.... perhaps not much use in this case but worth pointing out especially since those who do trigger 1E may be able to, potentially with help, via vehicle (theirs or another's) increase chances of successfully going out to some destination or activity.

[Deleted User]

Unfortunately my sister has done a change of circumstances and will now probably have to have reassessment, which will have no impact on anything because she's not entitled to extra points, she cannot leave the house due to distress and will not go out even with support so will be refused the descriptor she is trying to be awarded. Thanks for advice.

Muttleythefrog

Deleted_User said:

Unfortunately my sister has done a change of circumstances and will now probably have to have reassessment, which will have no impact on anything because she's not entitled to extra points, she cannot leave the house due to distress and will not go out even with support so will be refused the descriptor she is trying to be awarded. Thanks for advice.

This seems unfortunate indeed... if it does trigger a reassessment she does risk losing the current level of award as well as going through all associated anxiety. (It's not indicated when her award was made and whether typical reconsideration request timeline has passed - that would be the normal mechanism to first challenge a decision followed by independent appeal if still not happy). These assessments can be hit and miss in terms of accuracy. Be useful if you did update with what happens in due course - they may determine the reported changes (and I can't imagine what she might have said given there is no apparent change) don't warrant re-assessing at this time. Reassessments are expected to be typically conducted (text removed to correct) anyway (at intervals) but due to backlogs this is not apparently happening and commonly hasn't happened even prior to pandemic.

poppy12345

Muttleythefrog said:

Deleted_User said:

Unfortunately my sister has done a change of circumstances and will now probably have to have reassessment, which will have no impact on anything because she's not entitled to extra points, she cannot leave the house due to distress and will not go out even with support so will be refused the descriptor she is trying to be awarded. Thanks for advice.

Reassessments are expected to be typically conducted a maximum every 3 years (the standard maximum 'prognosis')

That's not correct. PIP awards can vary from 1 year right up to 10 years. My daughters review last year and this time she was awarded for 6 years.

poppy12345

Deleted_User said:

Unfortunately my sister has done a change of circumstances and will now probably have to have reassessment, which will have no impact

She has just risked losing everything she already has, of course it could stay the same or be reduced too. Change of circumstances should never be reported without first getting some expert advice.

Ref44

poppy12345 said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Deleted_User said:

Unfortunately my sister has done a change of circumstances and will now probably have to have reassessment, which will have no impact on anything because she's not entitled to extra points, she cannot leave the house due to distress and will not go out even with support so will be refused the descriptor she is trying to be awarded. Thanks for advice.

Reassessments are expected to be typically conducted a maximum every 3 years (the standard maximum 'prognosis')

That's not correct. PIP awards can vary from 1 year right up to 10 years. My daughters review last year and this time she was awarded for 6 years.

To support this, mhy wfe was given a 10 year award  (HR both elements) at the start of the year; sadly her condition will not improve.

Muttleythefrog

poppy12345 said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Deleted_User said:

Unfortunately my sister has done a change of circumstances and will now probably have to have reassessment, which will have no impact on anything because she's not entitled to extra points, she cannot leave the house due to distress and will not go out even with support so will be refused the descriptor she is trying to be awarded. Thanks for advice.

Reassessments are expected to be typically conducted a maximum every 3 years (the standard maximum 'prognosis')

That's not correct. PIP awards can vary from 1 year right up to 10 years. My daughters review last year and this time she was awarded for 6 years.

Ah yes... my apologies.... thinking WCA! Let me correct.

Newly_retired

 At a recent Tribunal. somebody was given an indefintie award.

poppy12345

Newly_retired said:

 At a recent Tribunal. somebody was given an indefintie award.

Do you have a source for that? The longest PIP award is 10 years, with a light touch review.