Advice needed - Car Park machine that didn't produce ticket - Court hearing stage

bomaya

Hi folks,

 I know there are lots of these sorts of threads but got a question about my case which is a bit different to all others I’ve read on here. I was fairly confident in my actions at first but the more it goes on, the more worried I am that I don’t have a leg to stand on.

In November 2021 I parked in a Euro Car Parks car park in Manchester. I went to the pay machine and put in my debit card. Display asked me to input my registration and the amount I wanted to pay. I knew I needed 4 hours which I think at that time (it was the evening) was £6. The machine beeped but just pushed my card back out and didn’t produce a ticket. My honest thought was this was a new-fangled machine that knew my registration, would match it to my number plates (I saw there were cameras at the entry/exit) and therefore didn’t produce tickets. It was so dark by the machine that I couldn’t read the board to see it mention anything about displaying tickets. It turns out my debit card was not charged.

Anyway, I think you can guess the next thing. A week later I received a letter from ECP saying I owed them £100 for a PCN (reduced to £60 if I paid within 14 days). I emailed a reply straightaway stating what had happened. I suggested that their machine was broken, they might have footage of trying to pay. I said I’d happily pay the £6 but didn’t think their fine was fair or justified. In December they replied to say they rejected my appeal. They said I could appeal higher to POPLA. Now, I’m pretty sure I did do this but can’t find any record of it.

ECP sent me another letter in February 2022 saying I hadn’t appealed to POPLA. In April I started getting letters from Debt Recovery Plus – the amount had now risen to £170. I started ignoring their letters now.

In October, I got my first letter from CST Law which was a Reminder Notice. And then finally this last week I have received a Letter Before Claim with all the forms.

So my questions are:

1.      Do I have any leg to stand on with my original claim that I shouldn’t have to pay a fine when I had genuine intent to try and pay and had no idea at the time that I hadn’t been charged?

2.      Now I am at this stage, what is the best plan of action? Continue to ignore and stall and just wait and see if it goes to Court, at which point, just pay OR should I pay now to get out of this nonsense? or something else?!

PS. For some context, I also had a fine from ECP in the last year for overstaying my welcome in a Morrisons car park. I paid up straightaway because I did stay there whilst going for a meal and it didn’t occur to me that it was now policed – it didn’t used to be.

Coupon-mad

"And then finally this last week I have received a Letter Before Claim with all the forms."

Who from?

If it's still CST Law it's nothing, as seen dozens of times on the CST Law Group thread just a few threads down from your thread today.


"PS. For some context, I also had a fine from ECP in the last year for overstaying my welcome in a Morrisons car park. I paid up straightaway because I did stay there whilst going for a meal and it didn’t occur to me that it was now policed – it didn’t used to be."

HUGE mistake!  Don't pay these.

You don't pay these things whilst the industry remains unregulated.  It also puts you marked on a Mugs List which may be why they keep sending daft demands now.

Grizebeck

You can ignore CST law
Reading all that text in bold has given me brain ache

bomaya

Coupon-mad said:

"And then finally this last week I have received a Letter Before Claim with all the forms."

Who from?

If it's still CST Law it's nothing, as seen dozens of times on the CST Law Group thread just a few threads down from your thread today.

Yes, the Letter Before Claim was from CST Law. So I should still ignore it and not do anything until what either Euro Car Parks or a Court contact me? 

Coupon-mad

Read the CST Law group thread (no link needed - use the forum search).

bomaya

Hi, 18 months later and after months and months of letters, I have now finally got to the Claim Form stage - sent by Euro Car Parks. 

Before I decide what to do next, can anyone offer any advice on a point from my first post which no one addressed. I genuinely don't know if I have a case here as I've not seen anyone else with the same issue.

Basically, I put my card in the machine at the car park, typed in my registration number, typed in the amount of time/£ that I needed (which from memory was 4 hours) and then touched my debit card to the reader. There was a beep but no receipt. I assumed (wrongly it seemed) that this was a no ticket car park as they had cameras recording number plates and the information I'd given was all that was needed. 

I did not know that no money had gone from my account until the first letter arrived from Euro Car Parks. So do I have a case in circumstances like this? I assume the machine was faulty or (as it was very dark) the machine display was telling me there was a problem with my payment method. Am I at fault for not knowing that the machine should have given me a ticket (it was too dark to read the signs)?

KeithP

bomaya said:

I have now finally got to the Claim Form stage - sent by Euro Car Parks. 

What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?

Coupon-mad

Read this thread, to the end:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6510658/defence-and-alleged-breach/p1

Same defence position as you and they also feared their defence was weak. They were wrong and REGARDLESS OF FACTS it is always a no-brainer to defend any claim from a private parking firm.

That is what will happen if this claim is from DCB Legal.  Easy innit? Scam over by 2025.

bomaya

KeithP said:

bomaya said:

I have now finally got to the Claim Form stage - sent by Euro Car Parks. 

What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?

Issue Date was 30/7/24, letter arrived 7/8/24.

LDast

With an issue date of 30th July, you have until 18th July to file your AoS. Follow the instructions in the Newbies/FAQ thread on how to do this. Once your AOS is filed, you then have unit 4pm on Monday 2nd September to submit your defence.

Castle

LDast said:

With an issue date of 30th July, you have until 18th July to file your AoS. Follow the instructions in the Newbies/FAQ thread on how to do this. Once your AOS is filed, you then have unit 4pm on Monday 2nd September to submit your defence.

18th August hopefully
(Actually the 19th, since the 18th is a Sunday).