Do I have to instruct a divorce lawyer?

MellyMooCow

MalMonroe said:

Hi, I've been through a divorce which was fairly acrimonious and we had a child. (We get along fine now but it's taken a while). If a mother is the main caregiver, as is usually the case, then they can stay in the marital home with their child/children if they want to. A divorce is something that affects the whole family and if the upheaval for the children can be minimised by them not having to leave their home, so much the better. Unless you intend to leave your children with their dad of course.

Having been through the process I'd say don't try to rush it and do everything at once. As RAS says above, don't agree to walk off and leave everything because you will surely come to regret that as time goes by. You have rights and you should really hang around to ensure that you get everything you're entitled to. 

It would also be a good idea to at least speak to a solicitor - and as others have said you can probably get a free initial session. The website that Savvy Sue recommended, I would also recommend. This one - 

https://divorce.wikivorce.com/

The title appears a bit flippant I think but it really is full of helpful information.

Your solicitor (if you did have one) would communicate with your husband through his own solicitor and wouldn't speak to your husband direct at all. 

What really concerns me is that you say he's going to 'kick off big time' when you tell him. I really do urge you to have a look at the information in the following link from Citizens Advice - they also give contacts and people you can phone for advice. Please do ensure that you are protected from his 'kicking off' if you possibly can. Is there anyone who could come to support you at all?

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/gender-violence/domestic-violence-and-abuse-getting-help/

I wish you all the best and hope everything goes better than expected for you. It's a worrying and very stressful time. Please do take care of yourself and your children. 

Hi,
Thank you for your reply. It is such a stressful decision to make.

We rent our home and there is no way I could afford it as a single person. Neither of us would be able to really. I am planning to find a cheaper home, even a 2 bed and I will sleep in the living room. It is the upheaval of the kids that I am dreading the most and that is most making me hold off. I'm trying to do my absolute best to make sure everything is good for them. I really, really wish we could just stay in this house, for the benefit of the kids. 

Although, aside from the cost... he would refuse to leave and as he is the main lead on the tenancy and I am only down as also living in the property, I wouldn't have any remit to make him leave.

If I want to separate, I have to be prepared to leave. It will be the only way to actually make him understand that the relationship is over. 

I am going to find some time to have a proper look at the website Savvy Sue linked to, as you have again. I did take a quick look and there looks to be a lot of useful information on it.

tightauldgit

MellyMooCow said:

tightauldgit said:

MellyMooCow said:

AliC999 said:

Hello - check out the blog on this site www.mediateuk.co.uk - there is a lot of information about parenting, finances and how to divorce amicably. They offer a free 15 minute chat too. 

The divorce part you can do yourself online. This is separate to the financial and parenting arrangements. Parenting best agreed between yourselves. Consider a drafting your own parenting plan if you like.  Finances you should definitely consider getting a clean break consent order, as without this, no agreement is legally binding and either of you can make a claim against the other in the future, even many years after your divorce. Also remember that under family law, it doesn't matter whose name is on a debt or an asset. The advice above to give a bit of time between letting him know you want to divorce, to discussing the financial arrangements is good advice. It can all be too much in one go. I hope this helps a little. 

Thank you for that link. I will take a look.

I've seen the no fault divorce online. It only just occurred to me that we got married in Cyprus, so I need to look into that now!

I will allow time between telling him and full on discussion. I will do anything I can to make this easier on him and the kids. I feel like I am destroying everyone's lives and I don't want to do that.

I didn't actually know that all debts were equally split, but I do now. I was just trying to be fair and have it so we have our vehicles, me the car him the bike, then we take our own debts as they are roughly equal anyway in terms of cards/loans. I didn't know it had to be done differently. 

That;s why its worth taking some time and actually working things out a little - when you originally posted you said you had no assets and over the course of a few posts you've now got a car, a bike and potentially several thousands pounds of electronics and furniture. What else might be missed? Do you have valuable jewellery? has he got a collection of Star Wars figures in their original boxes?

Also who actually owns all these items, are they on HP? If so they probably can't be sold or transferred. Be super careful of agreeing to something that has no legal standing - if you keep paying the car payments for example, that doesn't make the car yours. That's why you need to get things done legally and sorted out clearly. Things that both parties agreed to now can change two years down the line once you've fallen out about something unrelated, unless its specified in a court order.

 It's not necessarily that the end result is that the debt and assets will be equally split but that's kind of the overall starting point. I'm sure courts hear everyday that one spouse or the other actually incurred all the debt for their stuff and none of it should apply to the other spouse but courts will tend to look at most things as marital assets and marital debts unless it's really clear they aren't. That doesn't mean that everything has to be sold and split - just that the overall end position ends up roughly 50/50. 

It kind of makes sense to say 'keep the telly and the associated loan' if the TV is new but if it's already 2 years old then the value of the asset is going to be much less than the value of the debt potentially. Also is the debt clearly associated with the asset or just general credit card debt if its the latter it's harder to argue that the debt relates specifically to a TV or a console or whatever. 

Don't get too bogged down in the weeds at the minute though. If you are thinking that you are quite happy with X Y Z bits of furniture and the car then that might be the starting point for a settlement that you can flush out with a solicitor or a mediator. You need to have a conversation with your partner about that but as we already said the first step is the divorce conversation. 

Just be careful not to do anything in the short term that might be difficult to reverse later - for example if you leave the house, don't assume you will be able to move back in later. 

I didn't consider any of those to be assets, as they are financed therefore I thought they were classed as liabilities? The car is on finance and the bike is a pcp... we don't own anything outright it is all on finance or a credit card. 

I am definitely not trying to dodge paying for anything. I only said I would take the car as it is all in his name, but I wanted to show that I am happy to share all the debt in a way that benefits everyone.

No, I wasn't trying to suggest you were pulling a fast one, just that these things need to be worked out with a cool head and a pen and paper and that's better done a little way down the line. 

From your other post it seems since you can't afford to rent the house you would probably have to move anyway so it might be worthwhile just getting your ducks in a row on that one - seeing if there is somewhere you like suitable and within budget etc and then having the conversation that you want to move out. 

At that point I think you only really need to determine what happen in the immediate future regarding the kids, use of the car etc. Worst case he might say 'the kids and car stay with me and you can go away in short sharp jerky movements' other worst case he says 'you take the kids then' and suddenly you've got FT care responsibilities as a single mother. So you just need to be prepared for what comes next. 

It's only really once you've had that conversation that you can determine is this going to be something we can work out between us with a bit of help on the formalities or is this going to be a battle from start to finish. 

You sound fairly pragmatic and reasonable about it so it hopefully it all works out without too much hassle - the unknown is what his attitude will be. 

 

TBagpuss

MalMonroe said:

Hi, I've been through a divorce which was fairly acrimonious and we had a child. (We get along fine now but it's taken a while). If a mother is the main caregiver, as is usually the case, then they can stay in the marital home with their child/children if they want to. A divorce is something that affects the whole family and if the upheaval for the children can be minimised by them not having to leave their home, so much the better. Unless you intend to leave your children with their dad of course.

Having been through the process I'd say don't try to rush it and do everything at once. As RAS says above, don't agree to walk off and leave everything because you will surely come to regret that as time goes by. You have rights and you should really hang around to ensure that you get everything you're entitled to. 

It would also be a good idea to at least speak to a solicitor - and as others have said you can probably get a free initial session. The website that Savvy Sue recommended, I would also recommend. This one - 

https://divorce.wikivorce.com/

The title appears a bit flippant I think but it really is full of helpful information.

Your solicitor (if you did have one) would communicate with your husband through his own solicitor and wouldn't speak to your husband direct at all. 

What really concerns me is that you say he's going to 'kick off big time' when you tell him. I really do urge you to have a look at the information in the following link from Citizens Advice - they also give contacts and people you can phone for advice. Please do ensure that you are protected from his 'kicking off' if you possibly can. Is there anyone who could come to support you at all?

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/gender-violence/domestic-violence-and-abuse-getting-help/

I wish you all the best and hope everything goes better than expected for you. It's a worrying and very stressful time. Please do take care of yourself and your children. 

The bolded section is not correcct. 

When looking at finances, the court has to try to work out what is fair and reasonable, and the needs of the childnre are one of the factors which are taken into account, but there is no 'right' to stay in the matrimonial home. Sometimes it's the most appropriate outcome, for instnace if the parents with care can afford the mortgage or rent and all other outgoings on the house, AND can either buy out the other parent or the other parent is willing to wait for their dshare, and sometimes if staying in that house is the only way to providea home for the children, but often, unless the parent wnating to saty in the hoseu can afford to buy out the other, it's fairer and more common for the hosue to be sold in orderto achieve a clean break.
The needs of the childre is relvant, but that includes having suitable accommodation with each of the thier parents, anbd the needs, including housing needs, of both the spouses is also an importnat factor.

It's not uncommon for fathers or other non-resident parents to agree to a settlement that lets the childnre stay in the house, but it isn't a right nor is it a foregone conclusion, and it's misleading to suggest that it is. (Also, all of the laws are gender neutral, the rights and likely outcomes are no different for a mother who is the prmary carer than for a father in the same psoition) 

Of course, in the short term, until a financial settlement is reched, it is generally the case that both spouses will be entitled to remain living in the family home  and it s pretty common for one spouse (often the husband) to agre to move out becasue both being there is awkward and uncomofortable, but again, it's not soemthing tat either spouse can demand or assume will happen automatically.

RAS

It may be an idea to think of those things as both assets (potentially saleable) and liabilities?

When you say the car is on finance what do you mean? Loan or Hire purchase as the difference matters?

Edit: I'd suggest you may well be best arguing that these are not assets of the marriage, but personal to your ex-partner as are the associated liabilities.

tightauldgit

RAS said:

It may be an idea to think of those things as both assets (potentially saleable) and liabilities?

When you say the car is on finance what do you mean? Loan or Hire purchase as the difference matters?

Edit: I'd suggest you may well be best arguing that these are not assets of the marriage, but personal to your ex-partner as are the associated liabilities.

U can certainly try to argue it - but it's only going to be relevant if it goes to court and a court probably isn't going to be convinced unless there's a very strong case. I often get the feeling that these kind of arguments are far more expensive to litigate than they actually are worth to either party. 

Unless she never watched TV and the TV was locked away in a room that was never accessed by her it's not reasonable to insist that a TV wasn't a marital asset. And yes you might never have bought a 65" 4K TV if you'd been single but that's not really how marital assets work. 

Trying to nickel and dime these things is I think partly why things become acrimonious in the first place. Bear in mind the value of a second hand TV is probably at most an hour or two of a decent solicitors time and, unless there's a large amount at stake overall, it doesn't even become worth having them write a letter about it.  

ontheroad1970

Anything paid for on a credit card is unsecured debt, so the items are not tied to the debt, unless they are security for it specifically on the terms of the finance.