Raising a puppy (1st time dog owner)

dekaspace1

Puppy is 20 weeks old, sweet as can be when calm but very mischevious, she loves to bite bare feet or feet in slippers, she loves to bite arms especially if you wear a jumper, or dressing gown etc but even if you don't when she has her hyper moments as all puppies do she bites and barks and nothing seems to stop her, I have noticed in past week she is using a little less force but it still hurts a lot and saying ow or moving arm etc (as you expect) just excites her, she does play with toys but rarely or if something she shouldn't i.e she has stolen a pair of slippers, she also bites furniture often as she is teething.

She also doesn't like noise except from pc or laptop, if I make a phone call or use tablet or play music/game etc on phone/tablet/handheld device of any kind she barks and runs at me biting which is bad as I work from home so need to make many calls in a day.

She is having accidents indoors, I use no pads at moment but she has decided one of my sofas is where to go so I have put blankets there and use enzyme cleaner to break it down, and about once a week I go over sofa with rug cleaner machines hose attachment and fluid designed to get rid of smells from pet waste and everyday life.

I have a small garden which she does go in but especially in evening seems to not care, its a case of if she wants to go she just goes and if that coincides with being outdoors then its lucky for me.

She has good quality dry food so its not a case of cheap nasty food.

Katiehound

and your point is?

You need a very strict routine with house training but if she is 20 weeks old I assume you have been doing that.
When I have trained adults (rescues) they go out every 2 hours. They don't come in until they have done whatever. Add words to the action so they get the idea. lots of praise and a treat when they wee/poo. You have to be consistent.
When you go in the garden at night do not come inside until she has weed, however long it takes!
I would say keep her right off the furniture altogether.

Use your voice as a training tool- low voice (not loud, more like a growl) for commands like 'Leave that!' Higher pitched baby excited voice for praise, encouragement

Lots of training ideas from the following websites: Dogs Trust, Dogs for Good, Blue Cross

book:The Perfect Puppy by Gwen Bailey

Find some dog training classes locally. Make sure they use positive methods of training (reward based)

make friends with other dog owners- usually a mine of useful information , advice and tips

High quality food doesn't necessarily mean anything! If you have a dog with a dietary problem that's what they have . One of my hounds is gluten intolerant- no, not confirmed by the vet but by changing food to a grain free one changed things for the better. He had lived for 2 years before I had him being fed the 'wrong' food.

comeandgo

What breed of dog is it?  

elsien

dekaspace1 said:

Puppy is 20 weeks old, sweet as can be when calm but very mischevious, she loves to bite bare feet or feet in slippers, she loves to bite arms especially if you wear a jumper, or dressing gown etc but even if you don't when she has her hyper moments as all puppies do she bites and barks and nothing seems to stop her, I have noticed in past week she is using a little less force but it still hurts a lot and saying ow or moving arm etc (as you expect) just excites her, she does play with toys but rarely or if something she shouldn't i.e she has stolen a pair of slippers, she also bites furniture often as she is teething.

She also doesn't like noise except from pc or laptop, if I make a phone call or use tablet or play music/game etc on phone/tablet/handheld device of any kind she barks and runs at me biting which is bad as I work from home so need to make many calls in a day.

She is having accidents indoors, I use no pads at moment but she has decided one of my sofas is where to go so I have put blankets there and use enzyme cleaner to break it down, and about once a week I go over sofa with rug cleaner machines hose attachment and fluid designed to get rid of smells from pet waste and everyday life.

I have a small garden which she does go in but especially in evening seems to not care, its a case of if she wants to go she just goes and if that coincides with being outdoors then its lucky for me.

She has good quality dry food so its not a case of cheap nasty food.

Of course she doesn’t care. Dogs don’t have a sense of right or wrong. They learn that in some circumstances good things happen and people are pleased with them. They may not understand why. And yours is still a baby. She has no clue about why going outside is good and inside is bad. 

The idea is that you learn her signs that she wants to go, then hoik her outside quickly while it happens. And if you get cross she’s just learn to do it when you’re not looking because she knows you’re upset but doesn’t know why.

I’d strongly recommend this Facebook group. They have some good guides for both toilet training and puppies going through the land shark stage. 

dekaspace1

Shes a Border Collie, I forgot to mention I did see a trainer for a few sessions, and I have taught her to sit, lie down and I try and teach her leave it,drop it and look but those commands she only obeys if I use a treat same as when shes in her hyper mode only treats stop her or distract her long enough for me to move she also is getting better when on walks, I can get her to lie down often if she sees a passer by but not everytime.

I can't seem to find dog classes online but a few people I spoke to when out on walks said there is some local ones that are cheap.

Puppy is very submissive and sweet when on walk it's just at home she decides to not obey, when on walks I can have her off lead to train using a training lead and she won't run off, but in garden she decides that running away from me is fun.

I wouldn't mind her indoor accidents if it wasn't for that will teach her its ok to go indoors plus if it was in a place that I can easily clean, I don't want to clean the blankets each time she has an accident (I have blankets on the place she does both as its a sofa)

elsien

Copied from elsewhere but I think it’s a good summary to help understand where your collie is coming from, particularly with regards to noise in urban settings. 

So what is your Border Collie NOT good at...............?

The following article was sent to by Sue Kinchin, a member of the Association of Pet Dog Trainers and gives an interesting alternative insight into what makes Collies so special.

If you have a Border Collie you have a very special dog; a dog that is intelligent, sensitive, eager to please and very quick to learn. Sounds like the perfect pet? Yes, with our help they can make wonderful pets, but we need to remember that when we take one of these very special and complex dogs into our homes we have a responsibility to try to understand all the factors that make a Border Collie what it is. The more we can understand our Border Collies the less likely it is that we, and our collie, will encounter serious problems. Border Collies have been bred for generations in a very specific and restricted environment for a very specific task and, as a breed, are relative new-comers to life as pets. Some cope very well and others struggle. It is our duty to try to understand these beautiful, clever creatures and to help them to cope.

We can easily find books that tell us what Border Collies have been bred for. We will be warned about their sensitivity to movement and tendency to chase things and about the fact that they need to have their brains occupied, but what we are not generally asked to think about are those characteristics that are not necessary in a working sheepdog, but which make life easier for a pet dog.

Anyone who has owned Border Collies will be aware that they are generally cautious dogs. Without intensive and sensitive socialisation as puppies they are often wary of people, intolerant of unfamiliar dogs and anxious about anything new or changing. Even with intensive socialisation some retain these characteristics. Border Collies are prone to being affected by a single bad experience and have poor "bounce back" when something goes wrong for them. 

They are very sensitive to reprimands, but equally crave guidance and instruction. Because they are very sensitive to movement, any fast movement that they cannot control can be very disturbing to them. No wonder so many Border Collies hate traffic. Remember though, it is this sensitivity and intelligence that we find so appealing.

So why are they like this? Why can life upset them so easily? To understand our collies fully we need not only to consider what they have been bred for,.but also what they have not been bred for.

When a shepherd is selecting dogs to breed from he is selecting for a specific task and characteristics that do not interfere with this task are likely to be ignored. 

Over the generations your Collie has NOT been bred to:

• Cope with noise..... Collies need to have very acute hearing to hear and interpret a shepherd's signals at a great distance, but sheep farms are generally quiet places and their sensitive hearing does not cause them problems. Urban and domestic life bombards our dogs with noise and this can cause them extreme stress. Be aware of this and if necessary protect your dog from excessive noise. Speak quietly to your Collie, he doesn't need you to shout at him.

• Cope with change..... sheep farms tend to be relatively unchanging places, there are sheep, the shepherd and his family, the barn where the dog sleeps and an odd tractor or car. Sheep dogs don’t generally need to cope with change. Every time our urban collie leaves home the street outside will probably have changed (new vehicles, new people, rubbish skips etc.). Just going out for a walk, even if the dog looks forward to his walk, can generate stress and we need to be aware of this and help him cope. 

• Cope with the presence of strangers/visitors or groups of people…. Sheep farms tend to be isolated places. It is not necessary to be at ease with people to be a good working sheep dog. In a pet home our dogs are surrounded by many strange people in the street and visitors to the home. If you get your Collie as a puppy make sure he is sensitively socialised to people at an early age. If he is older respect the fact that he may find meeting strange people stressful.

• Cope with the presence of strange dogs......... apart from the familiar dogs with similar characteristics that live on the farm with them, working sheepdogs are unlikely to need to mix with other dogs. As pet owners we expect them to meet a lot of strange dogs, many with appalling “dog manners”, and often with our dog on a lead so that it does not have the option of running away. Even if your collie does not react aggressively in these situations he could well be very stressed.

Many sheepdogs will never leave their farms so traditionally they haven't really needed to get on with other dogs or unfamiliar people. Sociability and resilience are not characteristics that have historically been important in the development of the Border Collie. Although your dog may not be directly from working stock he will still have many of the characteristics inherited from generations of working sheep dogs and equally he may not have inherited those characteristics that would make life in a pet home easier for him.

Shepherds are the experts with Border Collies and we can learn a lot from them. Yes, we've all heard of harsh and callous shepherds, but many value their dogs very highly, not just as working dogs, but also as members of their family. Watch a sheepdog working, it is referring back to the shepherd for guidance all the time. His impulses to chase and control movement are under very tight control. The shepherd is guiding the dog and the dog is exhibiting self-control. Ideally this is how we want our collie to be with us. If he is checking in with us to find out what do next not only is he under control and less likely to get himself into trouble, but he is also getting reassurance from us. He doesn't have to worry; we will tell him what to do in any situation. Encourage your dog to look to you for guidance; it shouldn't be too hard, it's in his genesl

Watch the shepherd to, he has to keep very calm and guide his dog at all times. You just don't see excitable shepherds, an excitable shepherd would mean an excited dog and scattered sheep! Be a calm owner. Think about this if you are considering Agility or Flyball with your Collie, a good working sheep dog is fast and has lightning reflexes, but is not in a state of over-excitement. Teach your dog calmly what you want him to do. If he understands and is enjoying what he is doing he will do his best; after all he has been bred from generations of dogs selected for their willingness to work as a team with their handler. There is no need for your dog to be roused to a hysterical state for it to perform well, and it is bad for its mental and physical health to be in such a state. If your dog shows signs of stress or gets over-excited ask yourself is this is really the best activity for him.

A final thought... when a working sheepdog is not working alongside the shepherd he is shut away in a quiet, non-stimulating place to rest and recover and to keep him out of mischief! Importantly, adrenalin levels that have probably been quite high while he is working now have a chance to return to normal. Your sensitive, alert pet Collie is being bombarded with information from his environment all the time; make sure he has plenty of opportunity to rest in a secure, non-stimulating place where he can relax.

Think Border Collies, think working sheepdogs.....maximise their strengths, 

understand and respect their weaknesses.

MikeJXE

Dogs don't know whats right or wrong until you train them which is which. Accidents indoors are your fault for not talking the dog out regularly, after drinks and meals, it bites you because it can and you allow it, it needs to be stopped, you need to do something to discourage it such as water pistol and say NO at the time not a little after or it won't know what the punishment is for, don't shout at the dog either., love and praise makes a good log 

comeandgo

As an ex farmer I hate seeing Boarder Collies being cooped up in towns.  They need a lot of mental stimulation and exercise, they are working dogs who usually cover miles and miles a day, not only let out for a walk twice a day.    You are right, your dog is bored even now, what will it be like as a stroppy teenager?

dekaspace1

comeandgo said:

As an ex farmer I hate seeing Boarder Collies being cooped up in towns.  They need a lot of mental stimulation and exercise, they are working dogs who usually cover miles and miles a day, not only let out for a walk twice a day.    You are right, your dog is bored even now, what will it be like as a stroppy teenager?

I grew up in a village and used to take parents Collie out multiple times a day to the fields so I was raised with one, I am well aware of their needs as an adult, but I have no experience of puppies.

I take my puppy out for 30 minutes a day on average 60 on a non working day and will likely double that when fully grown and its the warmer months.

EDIT - And forgot to say I live at the end of a street next to a field that leads onto a large park, vehicles are not that common here, I have already taken her many long walks to the country park which is about a third of a mile away and other local large parks.

If I drove a car I would take her to the big park daily.

MikeJXE said:

Dogs don't know whats right or wrong until you train them which is which. Accidents indoors are your fault for not talking the dog out regularly, after drinks and meals, it bites you because it can and you allow it, it needs to be stopped, you need to do something to discourage it such as water pistol and say NO at the time not a little after or it won't know what the punishment is for, don't shout at the dog either., love and praise makes a good log 

When I first got her, she went the most right after I took her out and at one point in a 2 hour time slot I was out about 2/3 of that in garden and she still did nothing then came back in and instantly did both.

I know her morning timetable, when she wakes, after breakfast, about a hour later then again shortly after lunch for poops, wees are far more regular though but of course I take her out after shes drank as thats the most likely, and when she has wees its more a quick squat and instant stand up so I can't tell if shes marking her spots.

Evenings during the witching hour I cannot tell, but its the most likely when shes at her wildest as she starts running about and even barking.

Water pistols and such are seen as a negative teaching, I used to just hold her when she has her hyper moments which does work, even more so if I distract her with a treat and hold it for a few seconds till she calms down, toys don't work most of the time.

But I was told holding her still even if I used no force (it was more just like having my hand there) is negative and positve is needed.

I try and aim to take her out 2 hours maximum except the time slots I know its the most likely, I feed her 3 times a day so it means she goes out right after a meal and again about a hour later so thats at least 6 times a day, and at least 1 long walk per day, and often 2 or 3 smaller walks.

Katiehound

Hope you read that article about border collies posted above.

Collies need mental stimulation, when working they run many many miles each day.
They need to be working- at something.

One of my friends has collies and has competed and judged at Crufts Heelwork to Music- the dogs learn routines and anticipate moves. They are also used as mountain / lowland rescue dogs due to their intelligence. 

Personally I would never recommend this breed to a first time dog owner because they have complex traits, they are not great at curling up and minding their own business. I am wondering how much research you did before getting such a pup

One of the most respected trainers with border collies is Barbara Sykes, she has written a few books on the subject and runs courses in Think Like Canines. I think it would be worth your while to connect with her on facebook. She is very helpful (and an interesting speaker- I've heard her in the past)- used to run a bc rescue- she may still do so.

Barbara Sykes is a consultant in canine behaviour and is a member of the Canine and Feline Behaviour Association and the British Institute of Professional Dog Trainers. She has spent her life living and working with Border Collies. 

I see she has a puppy coach podcast 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVgbmwIEVrQ

Cheap classes?
No, you need good classes (they may be cheap!) because you have a dog which is likely to be your companion for 12 years or more. Time invested now is vital.

dekaspace1

Katiehound said:

Hope you read that article about border collies posted above.

Collies need mental stimulation, when working they run many many miles each day.
They need to be working- at something.

Cheap classes?
No, you need good classes (they may be cheap!) because you have a dog which is likely to be your companion for 12 years or more. Time invested now is vital.

I meant basic classes which will help both of us, as I "know" what commands to make but I myself need a bit of guidance on how to integrate them, puppy is normally great at obeying commands if I have treats in my hand but ignores when I don't

I knew they were a high energy breed due to growing up with one, she has the usual things I remember like being sneaky and stealing and full of energy.

I suppose the training is more for myself to guide me on how to train her, I went to a private trainer for a few sessions who said she has a great temperment and a fast learner and puppy was obeying everything trainer said 1st time, but with me she likes to mess around more.

I accidently dropped lead twice in past and had to run after puppy as she saw it as a game to wait till I was close and run away, I was taught how to recall but puppy only does that in a park setting, not on pavements or own garden.

Had a quick read of article but will read it more when I have my time off over next few weeks.