Responsibilities of a tenant in cold weather

youth_leader

Hopefully they will use common sense and keep the heating on low.  Someone on Mumsnet has just had her garden tap pipe burst, luckily she was able to turn off at the mains.

diystarter7

propertyrental said:

Tenants have an implied obligation, confirmed by the courts, to act 'in a tenant-like manner'.

Owner -occupiers leave their heating on low, and most buildings insurance policies require them to do so.

I don't think there is any doubt that taking reasonale precaurions against frost damage is acting in a 'tenant-like manner'. And conversely failing to do so is not 'acting in a 'tenant-like manner'.

However, having a clause in the TA is wise, and/or sending them guidance, for the avoidance of doubt.

https://www.orchards.co.uk/news/acting-in-a-tenant-like-manner-the-tenants-responsibilities-around-repairs

Hi
Many thanks and because of this thread, I will fly of an email i a few mins for LAS to confirm this.
Thanks

diystarter7

jonnydeppiwish! said:

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head - it’s normally a requirement of building insurance to leave it in at 10 degrees. The issue is the tenants done take out building’s insurance, the landlord does.
I think the LL should ensure that pipes are adequately insulated especially if good roofing insulation prevent much heat loss from the room below…….

Thanks, we have done everything we can to protect our hard-earned work but as per my posts here and this thread of mine - it was reading the mass of threads re frozen boilers/pipes/etc and this family from the eu going away over xmas made me think - we've had the properties for some years but it wont hurt for me to let off and email to LA to whom we pay handsomely to look after our, thankfully problem free T's.

Thanks

user1977

youth_leader said:

Hopefully they will use common sense and keep the heating on low.  Someone on Mumsnet has just had her garden tap pipe burst, luckily she was able to turn off at the mains.

Always sensible to have bits like that on separate isolation valves so you can just turn off/drain in the winter.

diystarter7

youth_leader said:

Hopefully they will use common sense and keep the heating on low.  Someone on Mumsnet has just had her garden tap pipe burst, luckily she was able to turn off at the mains.

If only this true re many of reading posts makes me wonder. Even owner-occupiers often fail to check ew property they move into and foolish when the go away over winter for up to 6 weeks to motherland etc and told their children to check all is ok every few days, they all forget about a bout of advserve weather and then return to the trashed house via burst pieps. It hapend to freids of ours several years ago, own the property, keep it in great nick - go to motherland every christmas, no heating on as thinking all ok then one years with days of sub sero temps, burst pipe.

Thanks

ps - re garden taps, we tell them to keep tap covered with the cover we give them.

Section62

diystarter7 said:

jonnydeppiwish! said:

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head - it’s normally a requirement of building insurance to leave it in at 10 degrees. The issue is the tenants done take out building’s insurance, the landlord does.
I think the LL should ensure that pipes are adequately insulated especially if good roofing insulation prevent much heat loss from the room below…….

Thanks, we have done everything we can to protect our hard-earned work but as per my posts here and this thread of mine - it was reading the mass of threads re frozen boilers/pipes/etc and this family from the eu going away over xmas made me think - we've had the properties for some years but it wont hurt for me to let off and email to LA to whom we pay handsomely to look after our, thankfully problem free T's.

Thanks

It probably won't hurt - but don't forget all those examples you found on the internet of landlords being "done" for harassing their tenants.  Make sure your actions (and those of the LA) don't expose you to the same risk.

theartfullodger

The great Lord Denning stated in "Warren v Keen" 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v_Keen

Regarding tenant responsibilities... 

""" But what does it mean, "to use the premises in a tenant-like manner"? It can, I think, best be shown by some illustrations. The tenant must take proper care of the place. He must, if he is going away for the winter, turn off the water and empty the boiler. He must clean the chimneys, when necessary, and also the windows. He must mend the electric light when it fuses. He must unstop the sink when it is blocked by his waste. In short, he must do the little jobs about the place which a reasonable tenant would do. In addition, he must, of course, not damage the house, wilfully or negligently; and he must see that his family and guests do not damage it; and if they do, he must repair it. But apart from such things, if the house falls into disrepair through fair wear and tear or lapse of time or for any reason not caused by him, then the tenant is not liable to repair it."""


Ah, but what about the Landlord's responsibilities (in cold weather or any other time..)..

A good guide is Governments HHSRS guidance...
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/9425/150940.pdf

- 29 sections which cover matters ...

""""
1. Damp and mould growth 22

2. Excess cold 23

3. Excess heat 25

4. Asbestos and MMF 27

5. Biocides 28

6. Carbon monoxide and fuel combustion products 29

7. Lead 31

8. Radiation 31

9. Uncombusted fuel gas 32

10. Volatile organic compounds 32

11. Crowding and space 33

12. Entry by intruders 33

13. Lighting 34

14. Noise 35

15. Domestic hygiene, pests and refuse 37

16. Food safety 39

17. Personal hygiene, sanitation and drainage 41

18. Water supply 43

19. Falls associated with baths etc 45

20. Falling on level surfaces etc 45

21. Falling on stairs etc 45

22. Falling between levels 47

23. Electrical hazards 49

24. Fire 50

25. Flames, hot surfaces etc 52

26. Collision and entrapment 54

27. Explosions 54

28. Position and operability of amenities etc 54

29. Structural collapse and falling elements 
 """""

If any tenant has any concerns suggest they write to landlord using Shelter's draft letter (and other guidance) here..
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/how_to_report_repairs_to_a_private_landlord

diystarter7

Hi 

I've just had another thought. A property/apartment one of our kids rents out has storage heaters and a hot water tank and they have access to the lift as top floor and there are pipes in there and lagged.

Posters talk about "set  thermo control to xx C" but how would it work on the above exmaple, please?

Thnaks in advance.

user1977

diystarter7 said:

I've just had another thought. A property/apartment one of our kids rents out has storage heaters and a hot water tank and they have access to the lift as top floor and there are pipes in there and lagged.

Posters talk about "set  thermo control to xx C" but how would it work on the above exmaple, please?

You turn down the settings on the storage heaters to something appropriate, might take some trial and error.

Norman_Castle

theartfullodger said:

The great Lord Denning stated in "Warren v Keen" 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v_Keen

""" But what does it mean, "to use the premises in a tenant-like manner"? It can, I think, best be shown by some illustrations. The tenant must take proper care of the place. He must, if he is going away for the winter, turn off the water and empty the boiler. He must clean the chimneys, when necessary, and also the windows. He must mend the electric light when it fuses. He must unstop the sink when it is blocked by his waste. In short, he must do the little jobs about the place which a reasonable tenant would do. In addition, he must, of course, not damage the house, wilfully or negligently; and he must see that his family and guests do not damage it; and if they do, he must repair it. But apart from such things, if the house falls into disrepair through fair wear and tear or lapse of time or for any reason not caused by him, then the tenant is not liable to repair it."""


Ah, but what about the 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v_Keen

Facts

A property was damaged after pipes froze, and the landlord sought to hold the tenant responsible for dilapidations.

Judgment

The Court below found for the landlord. The Court of Appeal overturned this and found for the tenant.