Planning permission to replace roof in conservation area

scrub

My friends need to get their roof replaced urgently but they're in a conservation area. They know they need to use specific tiles but someone mentioned about planning permission.

If they do a straightforward replacement with the same tiles, I don't see why they need planning permission?

diystarter7

scrub said:

My friends need to get their roof replaced urgently but they're in a conservation area. They know they need to use specific tiles but someone mentioned about planning permission.

If they do a straightforward replacement with the same tiles, I don't see why they need planning permission?

Hi
Better safe than sorry, personally I'd give the council planning department a call and speak with the 'conservations surveyor,' that are the people that make or break deals. The last thing you want is someone reporting you guys and having problems mid-way or afterwards.  Where we live on the other side of the road the properties are in a conservation area plus I know of several other places within a few miles of us. IMO, over the years conservation areas enforcement is not what it was but it all depends on the council and their officers managing that and their flexibility.

So give them a call it will be most likely straightforward - possibly try the call without giving your details if you are unsure.

Good luck


Thanks

Doozergirl

When you say 'the same tiles', do you mean exactly the same tiles or like-for-like? 

Like-for-like replacement doesn't usually require planning permission but different local authorities have different rules and so it would be prudent to check. 

The title is Conservation Officer, not surveyor.  

Section62

scrub said:

My friends need to get their roof replaced urgently but they're in a conservation area. They know they need to use specific tiles but someone mentioned about planning permission.

If they do a straightforward replacement with the same tiles, I don't see why they need planning permission?

The issue is about them using the "same tiles".  If the actual "same tiles" were put back on the roof after removing them to (e.g.) add a membrane and replace the battens then consent would probably not be required.  But replacing the existing tiles with ones which are new is work that will potentially require CA consent - the reason being that the new materials will not look the same as the old, perhaps not for another 50 years or more as they gradually develop their own patina.

The effect of designating a conservation area is to remove permitted development rights.  This means that development that other homeowners don't need to apply for explicit planning consent for become things that cannot be done without explicit consent.

There are grey areas in planning law when it comes to making repairs and doing replacement work.  If you live in a conservation area it is best not to assume that what you want to do (within one of the 'grey areas') is Ok, without running it past the council first.

The correct person to speak to would be the "conservation officer" - they are generally friendly people and typically respond positively where homeowners seek advice before doing work.  It is pointless making the call without giving details of the property as the advice has to be property specific - also coming across as evasive will make the CO suspicious about what is really going on.  The key thing is to be open and honest with your CO.

Your friends also need to be aware that what they are doing is likely to need Building Regs notification/approval.

Also, if they are doing the work so urgently that getting the correct permissions is an issue then I would be slightly worried that the job hasn't been planned/thought through properly.  For example, removing a roof in winter is far from ideal - even if the existing roof is leaking, it is possible more damage will be done by replacing it in the winter compared to waiting until next summer.  A good builder would probably advise their client to wait, a bad builder might be keener to do the work asap to get their money and run.

GDB2222

There's some guidance here that specifically mentions roof renewal as needing permission from planning (see P.10):

https://www.hgstrust.org/documents/property-design-guidance.pdf

diystarter7

Hi again OP

Sorry to repeat this but better safe than sorry, on Monday morning give the conservation dept at the council a call.
As I said, around where we live they don't appear to be stringent as years ago but every council if different.
Contacting the above leaves out the guesswork and risks.
Good luck.

Ectophile

diystarter7 said:

Hi again OP

Sorry to repeat this but better safe than sorry, on Monday morning give the conservation dept at the council a call.
As I said, around where we live they don't appear to be stringent as years ago but every council if different.
Contacting the above leaves out the guesswork and risks.
Good luck.

Biu it adds a new big risk - the risk that the council tells the homeowner that they need planning permission.  So they want full technical drawings, details of the constuction of the roof tiles, and so on.  The homeowner could be bogged down for months, paying out professional fees, then planning fees, then waiting for planning permission before they can repair their roof.

Meanwhile, the person down the road quietly replaces their roof, using tiles that look the same, and nobody at the council is any the wiser.

Section62

Ectophile said:

diystarter7 said:

Hi again OP

Sorry to repeat this but better safe than sorry, on Monday morning give the conservation dept at the council a call.
As I said, around where we live they don't appear to be stringent as years ago but every council if different.
Contacting the above leaves out the guesswork and risks.
Good luck.

Biu it adds a new big risk - the risk that the council tells the homeowner that they need planning permission.  So they want full technical drawings, details of the constuction of the roof tiles, and so on.  The homeowner could be bogged down for months, paying out professional fees, then planning fees, then waiting for planning permission before they can repair their roof.

Meanwhile, the person down the road quietly replaces their roof, using tiles that look the same, and nobody at the council is any the wiser.

It is what you have to live with if you opt to buy a listed building or a house in a conservation area.

In a conservation area it is unlikely you'll get away with quietly replacing your whole roof with nobody having a word with the council, or the conservation officer themselves seeing the work taking place.

The biggest risk of all though is the financial cost the homeowner might face if the council takes enforcement action - which could include a requirement for stripping off (and disposal of) all the 'new' tiles and replacing them with very-hard-to-find second hand tiles of the same pattern to match the original.

The risk of the homeowner being bogged down for months in the planning process strongly correlates with the risk of full enforcement action being taken if consent is not obtained.  If there is an issue of such significance that determination of the application will take months, then the significance of whatever it is will make enforcement action more likely.

It is very unlikely the CO will want full technical drawings for replacement of the roof (although they may be needed for building regs) - the CO is more likely to be interested in seeing a sample of the proposed tiles (only), and may well give advice on the best place to source them.

Proposed work on a building in a conservation area, which would be permitted development elsewhere, would normally be exempt from paying a planning fee.

If there is a genuine need for urgency - for example if a leaking roof is allowing rot or other irreversible damage - then the CO will help to expedite the application.  However, "I had to do it, it was an emergency" won't normally work as an excuse retrospectively where work that required consent was undertaken without consent.

diystarter7

Ectophile said:

diystarter7 said:

Hi again OP

Sorry to repeat this but better safe than sorry, on Monday morning give the conservation dept at the council a call.
As I said, around where we live they don't appear to be stringent as years ago but every council if different.
Contacting the above leaves out the guesswork and risks.
Good luck.

Biu it adds a new big risk - the risk that the council tells the homeowner that they need planning permission.  So they want full technical drawings, details of the constuction of the roof tiles, and so on.  The homeowner could be bogged down for months, paying out professional fees, then planning fees, then waiting for planning permission before they can repair their roof.

Meanwhile, the person down the road quietly replaces their roof, using tiles that look the same, and nobody at the council is any the wiser.

Hi

what you said about "big risk" but if you read my previous post I suggested making an enquiry and not give your name.
 said:. For your convenience I've quoted my post below nd highlighted the bit about not disclosing name.

Thanks

Hi
Better safe than sorry, personally I'd give the council planning department a call and speak with the 'conservations surveyor,' that are the people that make or break deals. The last thing you want is someone reporting you guys and having problems mid-way or afterwards.  Where we live on the other side of the road the properties are in a conservation area plus I know of several other places within a few miles of us. IMO, over the years conservation areas enforcement is not what it was but it all depends on the council and their officers managing that and their flexibility.

So give them a call it will be most likely straightforward - possibly try the call without giving your details if you are unsure.

Good luck


Thanks

Thanks

scrub

Section62 said:

Ectophile said:

diystarter7 said:

Hi again OP

Sorry to repeat this but better safe than sorry, on Monday morning give the conservation dept at the council a call.
As I said, around where we live they don't appear to be stringent as years ago but every council if different.
Contacting the above leaves out the guesswork and risks.
Good luck.

Biu it adds a new big risk - the risk that the council tells the homeowner that they need planning permission.  So they want full technical drawings, details of the constuction of the roof tiles, and so on.  The homeowner could be bogged down for months, paying out professional fees, then planning fees, then waiting for planning permission before they can repair their roof.

Meanwhile, the person down the road quietly replaces their roof, using tiles that look the same, and nobody at the council is any the wiser.

It is what you have to live with if you opt to buy a listed building or a house in a conservation area.

In a conservation area it is unlikely you'll get away with quietly replacing your whole roof with nobody having a word with the council, or the conservation officer themselves seeing the work taking place.

The biggest risk of all though is the financial cost the homeowner might face if the council takes enforcement action - which could include a requirement for stripping off (and disposal of) all the 'new' tiles and replacing them with very-hard-to-find second hand tiles of the same pattern to match the original.

The risk of the homeowner being bogged down for months in the planning process strongly correlates with the risk of full enforcement action being taken if consent is not obtained.  If there is an issue of such significance that determination of the application will take months, then the significance of whatever it is will make enforcement action more likely.

It is very unlikely the CO will want full technical drawings for replacement of the roof (although they may be needed for building regs) - the CO is more likely to be interested in seeing a sample of the proposed tiles (only), and may well give advice on the best place to source them.

Proposed work on a building in a conservation area, which would be permitted development elsewhere, would normally be exempt from paying a planning fee.

If there is a genuine need for urgency - for example if a leaking roof is allowing rot or other irreversible damage - then the CO will help to expedite the application.  However, "I had to do it, it was an emergency" won't normally work as an excuse retrospectively where work that required consent was undertaken without consent.

Thanks everyone. In this case, there is severe rot and a very severe problem with mould that's appeared throughout the house.

They are trying to source identical tiles. 

Section62

scrub said:

Thanks everyone. In this case, there is severe rot and a very severe problem with mould that's appeared throughout the house.

This would potentially indicate that waiting for drier weather would be advisable.  If water has got into the structural timber it is typically better to allow it to dry out thoroughly before treating it.  There's also a risk of trapping moisture in the structure if the wrong techniques are used in wet conditions.  The moisture will eventually escape, but possibly having caused more long-term damage.

Mould can be dealt with internally without the need for immediate replacement of the roof.

scrub said:

They are trying to source identical tiles.

This is where consulting the CO can help.  I particular, they may be willing to agree to replacing part of the roof (e.g. at the rear) with a different tile, allowing the more important aspects to be repaired using the best of the existing tiles.  Adopting that kind of approach without consulting the CO is where the risk of enforcement action becomes more likely.  Being allowed to replace part of the roof with a cheaper tile could deliver a significant overall cost saving.