Frozen pipes or something else?

houghton91

Hi all

Woke up this morning after the -8 cold snap to no water coming through my kitchen taps. It’s a mixer tap but neither hot nor cold worked, nor did the outside tap which is located on the other side of the outside wall they’re close to. 

Boiler is working fine (situated about 3m away), and hot and cold water running fine in upstairs bathrooms and showers. No signs of any burst pipes so far, but the stopcock is dripping a little in the basement. 

Should I wait until we’re in the warmer weather on Monday to see if it thaws out or do I need to call a plumber in tomorrow?

I’ve had the central heating on all day to raise the ambient temp of the house, and tried very gently warming the pipes exposed below the sink, but 12 hours later still nothing so it can’t be the exposed pipe I can see under the cupboard. Can see the pipes in the basement but can’t see where anything is actually frozen - everything down there is pretty cold. 

Advice welcome, thank you. 

ThisIsWeird

Do you have a washing machine or dish washer? If so, close the valve, undo the hose, and gently open the valve again. Ie, see if there's a way to determine whether it is a weird fault in the kitchen tap (perhaps it's thermostatic, so loss of one side means it all stops working?)

The upstairs is still getting hot and cold supplies? Does that mean you have a CWS in the loft, and a hot cylinder in the cupboard? If so, bear in mind that the CWS might not be refilling, so you may 'run out' of water at some point.

So, if you have a combi boiler, then that means your incoming mains pipe is not frozen.

If cold water (and hot if there's a hot one too) comes out the W/M or D/W valve, then that means water is getting as far as that - and I presume that means very close to the kitchen sink. So, the blockage is very very close...

If you have a CWS, can you get up in to the loft and check that it's full, and fills as you gently press down the ballcock?

Is the kitchen in an extension? Is there any reason why it would suffer from frozen pipes when the rest of the house doesn't?

houghton91

Can’t delete this thread without emailing but just as an update - I scoured the forum before going to sleep and decided to go back and move my dishwasher which is next to the sink… lo and behold I found a huge vent(?) directly above where the pipes come above the flooring. The second I moved the dishwasher I felt how cold it was! 

Warmed them very gently for a few mins and water started to come back - have now turned the supply off for the night as I don’t want to risk any bursts overnight. Will come back down in the morning and see if they have remained thawed - I’ve wrapped them in towels for now. 

Any recommendations for 1. Plugging that hole if possible, and 2. Insulating those pipes? Haven’t done it on corners before.

houghton91

ThisIsWeird said:

Do you have a washing machine or dish washer? If so, close the valve, undo the hose, and gently open the valve again. Ie, see if there's a way to determine whether it is a weird fault in the kitchen tap (perhaps it's thermostatic, so loss of one side means it all stops working?)

The upstairs is still getting hot and cold supplies? Does that mean you have a CWS in the loft, and a hot cylinder in the cupboard? If so, bear in mind that the CWS might not be refilling, so you may 'run out' of water at some point.

So, if you have a combi boiler, then that means your incoming mains pipe is not frozen.

If cold water (and hot if there's a hot one too) comes out the W/M or D/W valve, then that means water is getting as far as that - and I presume that means very close to the kitchen sink. So, the blockage is very very close...

If you have a CWS, can you get up in to the loft and check that it's full, and fills as you gently press down the ballcock?

Is the kitchen in an extension? Is there any reason why it would suffer from frozen pipes when the rest of the house doesn't?

Sorry I didn’t see your response before my reply! Thanks so much for the thoroughness. 

We have a combi boiler so no water tank. The dishwasher is directly next to the sink so I moved that and immediately heard crunching from the inlet so I suspect that is frozen too - turns out a very cold vent directly above the sink and D/W supply was the issue as as you’d mentioned, the boiler was having no issues supplying hot water everywhere else. Just got to figure out how to stop it happening again now I’ve managed to thaw it a little!

ThisIsWeird

Well done - phew, I bet you are relieved! And good call to keep the mains off for the night.

Others will advise on the best way to seal that hole. Is it sleeved? If so, that will be bridging the cavity - not sure if that's something that should be taken into account.

For the pipes, I guess 'rigid' foam lagging tubes will be the easiest to fit. They have a semi-cut-through slit along their lengths, which you can complete using a craft knife, and this will allow you to fit it over in-situ pipes like yours. They are easy to cut with neat mitres at corners too, and then it can all be taped to keep it in place. It might even be forceable around these pipe elbows in one piece, which would be better, but then they'd definitely need taping regularly to keep the slits closed. For the isolating valves, you should find that the 22mm size will fit this neatly. Butt any joins up firmly, and tape them too.

Screwfix and similar will sell these in single lengths. I notice they also do a foil wrap-type insulation - I don't know if that could be better?

houghton91

Not sure on the sleeve, will take another look tomorrow. I assume I don’t want to block it entirely, although I’m not sure how useful it’s been as it’s behind a dishwasher, under a kitchen unit, and next to the back door which is opened 10+ times per day! There was one hell of a draft coming in though once I moved the DW; no wonder my dogs are always shivering in there. 

Thank you, hadn’t thought of those tubes being bend-able, will see if I can track some down tomorrow all being well. 

Very relieved I found the source at least - I may even be able to sleep now!

ThisIsWeird

I guess that vent will have been for a tumble-drier at some point.

Yes, you will want it blocked fully - completely draught-proof - and with insulation in the inside wall skin at least, and there are folk on here who'll be able to advise on the best ways, and whether it's best to remove any sleeving as it breaches the cavity (not a major issue, but if the vent will never be required, I think I'd want to separate the two skins). I'm sure they'll see your post tomorrow and advise on this. Meanwhile, anything will do - a few sheets of cardboard propped up against it!

'Night

ThisIsWeird

Actually, probably worth a separate thread - 'How to block this hole in the wall...?'

Mutton_Geoff

What's on the outside? A vent plate? Take that off, insert a square of plastic (couple of layers of a rubble bag or side cut out of large plastic laundry softener bottle will do). Replace plate. Get a good handful of loft insulation from a nearby skip. Push that into pipe from inside.

Alternatively once the outside is blocked, squirt some builders foam in and immediately tape/fix a piece of card larger than the hole on the wall to ensure end of foam squared off.

It doesn't matter that the pipe bridges the cavity. It won't be causing any issues/loss of heat etc.

Eldi_Dos

As a emergency measure (bodge) until you get the right materials and the weather improves enough to do the work, get a empty large diameter pop or milk bottle and some draught excluder tape. Build up a couple of seals at each end of bottle to match diameter of vent pipe and push in, will cut down on draught till proper job can be done.
Better to get pipes lagged asap.

houghton91

Thanks all for the recommendations, will get it sorted this weekend. 

Turned the water back on and fixed the leaky stopc o ck earlier and fingers crossed so far so good.