Economy seven teleswitching service switch off

Gerry1

Deleted_User said:

Gerry1 said:

Deleted_User said:

Your meter will still work fine (that's why they say may stop, there are different designs) - or at least it will still record all your units - but anything that is supposed to only turn on at the night rate might just not turn on at all.

Obviously Utility Warehouse went to the same Scaremongering School as Ovo !

"What will actually happen is that your meter will stop working properly and it may mess up your bills pretty badly. If your heating and hot water are also controlled via RTS, it’s very likely that your house will turn into The North Pole or Sahara Desert…" 

The reality is that you won't notice any difference if the Long Wave signal is turned off.  Your teleswitch will still operate at the usual times: it'll just be like a digital watch put away in a drawer and not checked against the Greenwich Time Signal.  It might drift by a minute a year.

Some units on the RTS system (I think a little less than 10% on the admittedly old survey I saw) rely on the LW signal to actually trigger the switching, not just to keep the clock in sync.

On those units, if there is no LW signal, there is no switching.  It will simply stay in whichever position it was at the time.

What you say is true for most people, but it is not a blanket truth.

That seems a most unwise hostage to fortune.  For any given property it's entirely possible that a usable RTS LW signal could be lost: local screening (e.g. new steel framed buildings erected), local interference, Droitwich masts collapsing / off for maintenance / output valve going phut, etc etc.

Would permanent night rate then result?  Only in Ovo Land.  If it did, many people would have stayed up late and wrapped their RTSs in tinfoil !

The scaremongering is to encourage reluctant punters to accept smart meters because suppliers get fined if they miss government targets.

IMHO the RTS signal will write the new start / finish times into the RTS's memory, and the meter will continue with those switching times until a valid new command set is recognised.  If it no longer 'sees' Droitwich (or the Scottish equivalents) then it will remain on the most recent settings.

Scot_39

macman said:

But does the industry actually know where those 10% of RTS are installed in order to target them for replacement by 23/24/25?

We were transferred off our old heatwise tariff by EOn onto E10 due to the threatened loss of radio signal years ago.

The local LW mast sight - was part demolished about a year after the date on a neighbours final letter - he held out about 6 months longer than I did - not sure if that was the singal source though.

The later letters were according to him along the lines of - tell us you want to accept new E10 pricing by this date - or a single rate meter will be installed. 

For E7 you will I suspect just get a "fixed" time switching smart meter - likely Smets2.

My smets1 E10 doesn't compensate for clock 1hr changes - so maybe a question to ask the installer or your supplier.

[Deleted User]

Gerry1 said:

Deleted_User said:

Gerry1 said:

Deleted_User said:

Your meter will still work fine (that's why they say may stop, there are different designs) - or at least it will still record all your units - but anything that is supposed to only turn on at the night rate might just not turn on at all.

Obviously Utility Warehouse went to the same Scaremongering School as Ovo !

"What will actually happen is that your meter will stop working properly and it may mess up your bills pretty badly. If your heating and hot water are also controlled via RTS, it’s very likely that your house will turn into The North Pole or Sahara Desert…" 

The reality is that you won't notice any difference if the Long Wave signal is turned off.  Your teleswitch will still operate at the usual times: it'll just be like a digital watch put away in a drawer and not checked against the Greenwich Time Signal.  It might drift by a minute a year.

Some units on the RTS system (I think a little less than 10% on the admittedly old survey I saw) rely on the LW signal to actually trigger the switching, not just to keep the clock in sync.

On those units, if there is no LW signal, there is no switching.  It will simply stay in whichever position it was at the time.

What you say is true for most people, but it is not a blanket truth.

That seems a most unwise hostage to fortune.  For any given property it's entirely possible that a usable RTS LW signal could be lost: local screening (e.g. new steel framed buildings erected), local interference, Droitwich masts collapsing / off for maintenance / output valve going phut, etc etc.

Would permanent night rate then result?  Only in Ovo Land.  If it did, many people would have stayed up late and wrapped their RTSs in tinfoil !

The scaremongering is to encourage reluctant punters to accept smart meters because suppliers get fined if they miss government targets.

IMHO the RTS signal will write the new start / finish times into the RTS's memory, and the meter will continue with those switching times until a valid new command set is recognised.  If it no longer 'sees' Droitwich (or the Scottish equivalents) then it will remain on the most recent settings.

It certainly isn't a good situation, as you suggest, but it is a possible one.

At most properties, and all (as far as I know) where the switching components are included inside the meter, it will work exactly as you say.

All I'm trying to point out is that devices exist out there where it is not true.

Gerry1

Scot_39 said:

macman said:

But does the industry actually know where those 10% of RTS are installed in order to target them for replacement by 23/24/25?

The local LW mast sight - was part demolished about a year after the date on a neighbours final letter - he held out about 6 months longer than I did - not sure if that was the singal source though.

There are no 'local' LW masts.  It'll be Droitwich, Westerglen or Burghead, and they are all in service.

[Deleted User]

Gerry1 said:

Scot_39 said:

macman said:

But does the industry actually know where those 10% of RTS are installed in order to target them for replacement by 23/24/25?

The local LW mast sight - was part demolished about a year after the date on a neighbours final letter - he held out about 6 months longer than I did - not sure if that was the singal source though.

There are no 'local' LW masts.  It'll be Droitwich, Westerglen or Burghead, and they are all in service.

I guess that was kind of the point of hosting it on LW - it didn't need local transmitters.

Gerry1

Deleted_User said:

Gerry1 said:

Scot_39 said:

macman said:

But does the industry actually know where those 10% of RTS are installed in order to target them for replacement by 23/24/25?

The local LW mast sight - was part demolished about a year after the date on a neighbours final letter - he held out about 6 months longer than I did - not sure if that was the singal source though.

There are no 'local' LW masts.  It'll be Droitwich, Westerglen or Burghead, and they are all in service.

I guess that was kind of the point of hosting it on LW - it didn't need local transmitters.

It's the long wavelength that's so attractive: like a clap of thunder, the ground wave just keeps on going, there's hardly anywhere that can't receive it and it even covers much of western Europe.  Diffraction means that it refreshes the parts that other signals can't reach, way down at the bottom of a valley for example.  The data rate is very low so it doesn't need a high signal-to noise ratio and there's no need to use a higher frequency to obtain wide bandwidth.

It's always the same frequency (198kHz) as well, so no on-site customisation is required apart from a simple A/B choice between two ferrite rod aerial orientations.

inspectorperez

Gerry1 said:

Deleted_User said:

Gerry1 said:

Scot_39 said:

macman said:

But does the industry actually know where those 10% of RTS are installed in order to target them for replacement by 23/24/25?

The local LW mast sight - was part demolished about a year after the date on a neighbours final letter - he held out about 6 months longer than I did - not sure if that was the singal source though.

There are no 'local' LW masts.  It'll be Droitwich, Westerglen or Burghead, and they are all in service.

I guess that was kind of the point of hosting it on LW - it didn't need local transmitters.

It's the long wavelength that's so attractive: like a clap of thunder, the ground wave just keeps on going, there's hardly anywhere that can't receive it and it even covers much of western Europe.  Diffraction means that it refreshes the parts that other signals can't reach, way down at the bottom of a valley for example.  The data rate is very low so it doesn't need a high signal-to noise ratio and there's no need to use a higher frequency to obtain wide bandwidth.

It's always the same frequency (198kHz) as well, so no on-site customisation is required apart from a simple A/B choice between two ferrite rod aerial orientations.

Dumb question from a non scientific mind. With everything LW seems to have going for it, why the need to switch it off rather than make more use of it?

[Deleted User]

inspectorperez said:

Gerry1 said:

Deleted_User said:

Gerry1 said:

Scot_39 said:

macman said:

But does the industry actually know where those 10% of RTS are installed in order to target them for replacement by 23/24/25?

The local LW mast sight - was part demolished about a year after the date on a neighbours final letter - he held out about 6 months longer than I did - not sure if that was the singal source though.

There are no 'local' LW masts.  It'll be Droitwich, Westerglen or Burghead, and they are all in service.

I guess that was kind of the point of hosting it on LW - it didn't need local transmitters.

It's the long wavelength that's so attractive: like a clap of thunder, the ground wave just keeps on going, there's hardly anywhere that can't receive it and it even covers much of western Europe.  Diffraction means that it refreshes the parts that other signals can't reach, way down at the bottom of a valley for example.  The data rate is very low so it doesn't need a high signal-to noise ratio and there's no need to use a higher frequency to obtain wide bandwidth.

It's always the same frequency (198kHz) as well, so no on-site customisation is required apart from a simple A/B choice between two ferrite rod aerial orientations.

Dumb question from a non scientific mind. With everything LW seems to have going for it, why the need to switch it off rather than make more use of it?

Apparently there is only one spare valve anywhere in the world for this particular transmitter technology, and once it blows they can't make any more.

Also, smart meters can do the one thing that radioswitching does and a whole lot more, so when everyone has a smart meter anyway you don't need the switching service.

macman

So, if that last valve blows before 2025, there's going to be a problem?

MrsOs

thanks so we won’t suddenly be without electricity and our bills won’t sky rocket in price ?