Energy how do they justify your DD increase

[Deleted User]

The only history of my usage they have is since September 2022 when I was transferred to them by SSE, They can look back two years if they have access to SSE which I am sure they have but don't want to take any notice. 

All suppliers have nominated data collectors. On a transfer of supply, historical usage data (going back 2 years I believe) is passed between data collectors. Clearly, the new owner may use energy in a different way, but there is the basis to calculate an estimated annual usage figure. The longer the new occupier has been in the property, the more accurate the annual usage figure becomes.

[Deleted User]

MikeJXE said:

EssexHebridean said:

Right - so in fact they don't actually know what your usage is, and so can only base their calculations on what they estimate you might use. Can they just accept at face value what you are telling them you will use? No - because the vast majority of people out there either think that they use less than they do, or they assume that it will cost less than it will. As your history with your supplier builds up, their estimates should get more accurate. In the meantime your best bet is to approach them with a "I think this is being unreasonable and would like to pay £X please" approach - Martin Lewis has talked about this many times - including on his podcast which might be worth a listen for you. 

Just spotted that you have cancelled your DD - do remember to increase the amount you are setting aside for payments to take account of the fact that you will probably now be paying higher rates, won't you. 

They do actually know they have just taken over my account from SSE and don't need to take my word for it so imo they know my history for the last 2 years and I shouldn't be starting from average user 

Yes I understand the implications of cancelling DD and It doesn't bother me in the least, I would willingly pay Whole amount monthly direct debit but they have not offered that,

why would that be ?

Would it be they can see my usage since September and my DD is covering that amount and they would get very little more out of me ? 
. 

If your DD wasn't covering September usage I would be worried.

MikeJXE

[Deleted User] said:

MikeJXE said:

EssexHebridean said:

Right - so in fact they don't actually know what your usage is, and so can only base their calculations on what they estimate you might use. Can they just accept at face value what you are telling them you will use? No - because the vast majority of people out there either think that they use less than they do, or they assume that it will cost less than it will. As your history with your supplier builds up, their estimates should get more accurate. In the meantime your best bet is to approach them with a "I think this is being unreasonable and would like to pay £X please" approach - Martin Lewis has talked about this many times - including on his podcast which might be worth a listen for you. 

Just spotted that you have cancelled your DD - do remember to increase the amount you are setting aside for payments to take account of the fact that you will probably now be paying higher rates, won't you. 

They do actually know they have just taken over my account from SSE and don't need to take my word for it so imo they know my history for the last 2 years and I shouldn't be starting from average user 

Yes I understand the implications of cancelling DD and It doesn't bother me in the least, I would willingly pay Whole amount monthly direct debit but they have not offered that,

why would that be ?

Would it be they can see my usage since September and my DD is covering that amount and they would get very little more out of me ? 
. 

If your DD wasn't covering September usage I would be worried.

I am on a smart meter so can see my balance hourly 

I have since spoken to OVO again, a different person and now my DD is more in line with what my actual energy use is

[Deleted User]

Sounds like a good result for you.  You had evidence, they listened.

dunstonh

EssexHebridean said:

dunstonh said:

My DD has for some time been £91 and today  I am in credit of £95.90 

That is low credit for this point in time after a mild Autumn.   Coming out of Autumn, you would expect to see around 3-5 times your monthly payment as the credit.

The OP stated that they only recently moved to their current supplier, I believe.

That may well explain it then.   Insufficient time to build enough Summer credit resulting in an increase in the monthly payment.

I have since spoken to OVO again, a different person and now my DD is more in line with what my actual energy use is

Hopefully, you have added around 15-30% on the 2021/22 readings seeing how mild it was in that period. 

matt_drummer

Hi,

I am curious as to how MikeJXE has calculated his annual cost on those usage levels.

I don't know what tariff he is on but using approximately the current variable rates I calculate around the amount quoted.

However, that does not included the standing charges.

Has MikeJXE included the standing charges in his calculations?

That, together with the April price increases would explain the DD suggestion.

Sea_Shell

MikeJXE said:

[Deleted User] said:

MikeJXE said:

EssexHebridean said:

Right - so in fact they don't actually know what your usage is, and so can only base their calculations on what they estimate you might use. Can they just accept at face value what you are telling them you will use? No - because the vast majority of people out there either think that they use less than they do, or they assume that it will cost less than it will. As your history with your supplier builds up, their estimates should get more accurate. In the meantime your best bet is to approach them with a "I think this is being unreasonable and would like to pay £X please" approach - Martin Lewis has talked about this many times - including on his podcast which might be worth a listen for you. 

Just spotted that you have cancelled your DD - do remember to increase the amount you are setting aside for payments to take account of the fact that you will probably now be paying higher rates, won't you. 

They do actually know they have just taken over my account from SSE and don't need to take my word for it so imo they know my history for the last 2 years and I shouldn't be starting from average user 

Yes I understand the implications of cancelling DD and It doesn't bother me in the least, I would willingly pay Whole amount monthly direct debit but they have not offered that,

why would that be ?

Would it be they can see my usage since September and my DD is covering that amount and they would get very little more out of me ? 
. 

If your DD wasn't covering September usage I would be worried.

I am on a smart meter so can see my balance hourly 

I have since spoken to OVO again, a different person and now my DD is more in line with what my actual energy use is

Let's hope that's not a hollow victory which sees you building up debt on your account by end of winter.

Keep recalculating each month and reassessing where you are.  Don't "fire and forget"

MWT

MikeJXE said:

I am on a smart meter so can see my balance hourly 

The monetary amounts shown on your IHD, which takes its data from the smart meter, may not be accurate if the tariff information has not been updated recently, so do chack that and make sure it is correct if you are relying on the monetary amounts it displays...

deano2099

EssexHebridean said:

Right - so in fact they don't actually know what your usage is, and so can only base their calculations on what they estimate you might use. Can they just accept at face value what you are telling them you will use?

But in this case there's three other things acting here.
a) the OP has more data on past usage than they have, which he has offered to share
b) he's currently in credit, and 
c) it's the start, not the end of winter. 

This argument works if it's summer and the customer is saying "well I'm going to use less next winter, so I want a lower direct debit now". That's a risk for the company, as the customer may not build up enough credit to cover them for the winter, then not be able to afford the inevitable extra payment or significantly increased direct debit. And the regulators want energy companies to avoid that.
But it's not summer right now. It's the start of winter. The high usage period is *right now* - so they will find out pretty sharpish if the OP is wrong in his estimates (assuming monthly readings/smart meter). So I'd say yes, they should just take him at his word, and if the figures over the next month don't reflect what he told them, take action at that point. They're not carrying £500+ of risk there like they would be if it was March. They're carrying the £60 extra for one month. And putting that £500+ risk on all of us instead (as if the OP is correct, it'll build up as credit in his account, and if the company fails, that credit balance is protected and SOLR - ie our bills - pays for it).

This can work the other way around instead. They could say "well pay the £150 this month but if your usage next month reflects what you've told us, we'll recalculated it then" meaning they're carrying no risk at all. The problem here is energy companies being unwilling to review accounts more often than every 6 or 12 months. There should be something in place where if actual usage data is sketchy, and the customer and energy company disagree significantly on predicted usage, that it just gets reviewed every month. It doesn't even need human intervention - a computer can see pretty damn quick if the usage estimates are significantly out. (And I'd bet when those usage estimates are higher than the energy company estimated, said computer will flag that account up for an early review pretty damn quick).

(Disclaimer to add: this is all dependant on, ideally, smart meters. Or at least the customer providing regular meter readings)

MikeJXE

matt_drummer said:

Hi,

I am curious as to how MikeJXE has calculated his annual cost on those usage levels.

I don't know what tariff he is on but using approximately the current variable rates I calculate around the amount quoted.

However, that does not included the standing charges.

Has MikeJXE included the standing charges in his calculations?

That, together with the April price increases would explain the DD suggestion.

I am not sure why your calculation doesn't include standing charge, these are mine

Standing charge
365 x 27.12 =    98.98
365 x 4358 =    159.06

Usage in kWh
790 x 3144 =    248.37
5491 x .0974 = 534.82

Total.               1041.23
Vat.                     52.06

                      £1093 29 / 12 = £91.10 

I slight discrepancy from previous due to typo

I don't believe April price increase will have much meaning in the start of summer, next winter will be the killer for many people. More so if there is no government help.