Digital Nomad Visas - Spain

dantheman8t5

Hi,

Apologies if this is in the wrong thread.

I'm aware that Spain are about to announce the Digital Nomad Visa in 2023. I'm looking at potentially going for this, and moving out to Spain for a period of time as I work remotely for my employer.

I believe this is already in operation in other countries in Europe. Has anyone had any experience with this as yet? Is this something that you would need to apply via a Consulate, and are there any fees involved?

Many thanks

DullGreyGuy

https://www.globalcitizensolutions.com/spain-digital-nomad-visa/

Details havent been finalised yet but it would be safe to assume there will be a fee for applying and it'll be done via the local embassy. 

Did look at a similar scheme outside of the EU but the issue was many of those that I'd work for wouldnt allow even remote staff to be outside the UK and so instead used a 6 month visa free entry and returned as changed client who had a no abroad policy.

Doshwaster

We've been told by HR that we cannot work from a location outside of the UK due to issue with tax and employment laws.

DullGreyGuy

Doshwaster said:

We've been told by HR that we cannot work from a location outside of the UK due to issue with tax and employment laws.

Some add data protection issues too, esp if you are considering going outside of the EEA

buglawton

The scheme has offically started. 

https://extranjeros.inclusion.gob.es/es/ModelosSolicitudes/ley_14_2013/index.html
(use Chrome with Google Translate to read it in English)

The offiical Spanish language application form that's available on this page must be completed, though there are assistance document in English and other languages on the page.

When I first heard about this scheme I imagined you could get your payroll done in Spain by a branch office of your bigger UK based company. Not so it seems, they expect you to still be paid out of your home country. So that would entail getting your HR dept/payroll to cooperate and a raft of tax work to be done, to keep you out of UK PAYE, then you have to go on to convince HMRC you are now abroad and UK tax-exempt, and then you get yourself taxed in Spain at the much mentioned preferential rate.

That all takes the shine off it. I know most UK HR depts are going to say 'too much like hard work'. Entrepeneurial startups and contractors might find a way around.

I think the Spanish bureaucrats didn't think through the real world situations of would be high skilled migrants using this scheme and will be making changes as it goes along, once the slow takeup is seen.

This is going to be a rather specialist topic and I wonder if this is the right forum for it, there may be a community of experienced mobile workers dicussing this somewhere.

tightauldgit

buglawton said:

The scheme has offically started. 

https://extranjeros.inclusion.gob.es/es/ModelosSolicitudes/ley_14_2013/index.html
(use Chrome with Google Translate to read it in English)

The offiical Spanish language application form that's available on this page must be completed, though there are assistance document in English and other languages on the page.

When I first heard about this scheme I imagined you could get your payroll done in Spain by a branch office of your bigger UK based company. Not so it seems, they expect you to still be paid out of your home country. So that would entail getting your HR dept/payroll to cooperate and a raft of tax work to be done, to keep you out of UK PAYE, then you have to go on to convince HMRC you are now abroad and UK tax-exempt, and then you get yourself taxed in Spain at the much mentioned preferential rate.

That all takes the shine off it. I know most UK HR depts are going to say 'too much like hard work'. Entrepeneurial startups and contractors might find a way around.

I think the Spanish bureaucrats didn't think through the real world situations of would be high skilled migrants using this scheme and will be making changes as it goes along, once the slow takeup is seen.

This is going to be a rather specialist topic and I wonder if this is the right forum for it, there may be a community of experienced mobile workers dicussing this somewhere.

If you're employed by and paid by a company based in Spain then you aren't actually a digital nomad - you're just working in Spain. There are other visas available for that. If your company are willing to internally transfer you to their Spanish office as you suggest then it shouldn't be all that difficult to get the requisite work permit. 

I imagine "Spanish bureaucrats" thought through the process well enough and realise that a digital nomad visa isn't supposed to be a work around for people to avoid getting a proper work permit in Spain. 

buglawton

The intention is to fast track high tech workers on an immigration path into Spain.

Before the details were released a few days ago, publicity seemed to indicate that so long as you weren't already resident in the EEA countries you'd get a 1 year tax break by working in Spain with options to extend, probably with a view to permanent settlement if you like it. I'd imagined that with the visa issues now potentially eased, your payroll would be from a local branch office in Spain. E.g. my company has 100s of employees in the UK but just 4 in it's Spanish office.

At this moment based on details newly released, it looks as though for Brits going for the digital nomad scheme (not the separate startup scheme) you'd be expected to stay on your UK payroll, work remotely in Spain, while remitting all your income tax to Spain. Which instantly raised the question and doubts about HR depts and HMRC I mentioned previously.

[Deleted User]

buglawton said:

The scheme has offically started. 

https://extranjeros.inclusion.gob.es/es/ModelosSolicitudes/ley_14_2013/index.html
(use Chrome with Google Translate to read it in English)

The offiical Spanish language application form that's available on this page must be completed, though there are assistance document in English and other languages on the page.

When I first heard about this scheme I imagined you could get your payroll done in Spain by a branch office of your bigger UK based company. Not so it seems, they expect you to still be paid out of your home country. So that would entail getting your HR dept/payroll to cooperate and a raft of tax work to be done, to keep you out of UK PAYE, then you have to go on to convince HMRC you are now abroad and UK tax-exempt, and then you get yourself taxed in Spain at the much mentioned preferential rate.

That all takes the shine off it. I know most UK HR depts are going to say 'too much like hard work'. Entrepeneurial startups and contractors might find a way around.

I think the Spanish bureaucrats didn't think through the real world situations of would be high skilled migrants using this scheme and will be making changes as it goes along, once the slow takeup is seen.

This is going to be a rather specialist topic and I wonder if this is the right forum for it, there may be a community of experienced mobile workers dicussing this somewhere.

It's clearly aimed at self employed or contractors rather than PAYE employees. 

When I obtained an EEA Passport (due to Brexit) I I considered doing similar for the cold months. However,  my employer quickly said more than maybe a couple of weeks outside the UK, they'd require I become a contractor.

[Deleted User]

It's so unfair that there's no way for some of us to get an EEA passport now. Second class citizens.

CKhalvashi

tightauldgit said:

buglawton said:

The scheme has offically started. 

https://extranjeros.inclusion.gob.es/es/ModelosSolicitudes/ley_14_2013/index.html
(use Chrome with Google Translate to read it in English)

The offiical Spanish language application form that's available on this page must be completed, though there are assistance document in English and other languages on the page.

When I first heard about this scheme I imagined you could get your payroll done in Spain by a branch office of your bigger UK based company. Not so it seems, they expect you to still be paid out of your home country. So that would entail getting your HR dept/payroll to cooperate and a raft of tax work to be done, to keep you out of UK PAYE, then you have to go on to convince HMRC you are now abroad and UK tax-exempt, and then you get yourself taxed in Spain at the much mentioned preferential rate.

That all takes the shine off it. I know most UK HR depts are going to say 'too much like hard work'. Entrepeneurial startups and contractors might find a way around.

I think the Spanish bureaucrats didn't think through the real world situations of would be high skilled migrants using this scheme and will be making changes as it goes along, once the slow takeup is seen.

This is going to be a rather specialist topic and I wonder if this is the right forum for it, there may be a community of experienced mobile workers dicussing this somewhere.

If you're employed by and paid by a company based in Spain then you aren't actually a digital nomad - you're just working in Spain. There are other visas available for that. If your company are willing to internally transfer you to their Spanish office as you suggest then it shouldn't be all that difficult to get the requisite work permit. 

I imagine "Spanish bureaucrats" thought through the process well enough and realise that a digital nomad visa isn't supposed to be a work around for people to avoid getting a proper work permit in Spain. 

I see this is aimed more at contractors/freelancers/possibly directors than PAYE employees.

We currently operate (for the sake of simplicity) a UK office and an EU office, each of which is legally operated by a separate company. That EU office can only employ EU/EEA and Ukrainian citizens without work visas. It doesn't look like Spain's intention is for us to open a Spanish office/company to then hire 'remote' workers. We can get work permits but these are national, we need staff who have the unlimited right to live and work in the EU, so for us that's a non-starter.

I'm not sure exactly what Spain is aiming at here as many work specs for contractors have specific location requirements, largely for GDPR reasons (although if the contracts we don't have control over are worded correctly, which many of the newer ones are, we can operate that particular business in any country of the world subject to appropriate protections being in place), so GDPR shouldn't be a long term concern for employers.

[Deleted User] said:

It's so unfair that....

Political debate is not allowed on the forums since 2020. I'd recommend removing your post before someone from the forum team sees it (note I haven't reported it but that doesn't stop someone else from doing so).

eDicky

[Deleted User] said:

It's so unfair that there's no way for some of us to get an EEA passport now. Second class citizens.

All's fair in love, war and Brexit...