Utmost multi asset moderate (Pension)

Former Equitable life policy holder, transferred to Utmost a couple of years ago. Seemed to be doing ok for a while but like most pots its gone down over the past year a fair bit.

I wont pretend to understand how these investments work but it only seems to be going in one direction. Not massively so but its lost at least 10% since last year.  I presume this is because of Putins war and the energy crisis and I naively thought maybe Utmost would take advantage of that but it seems not.  This is the review of that fund (I have two other smaller ones with them also). Im 56 and most of it is in the Multi asset moderate fund.

https://www.trustnet.com/factsheets/N/qras/utmost-multi-asset-moderate/

I dont need the money yet and probably not for many years so what do I do?  Leave it and hope it picks up again or look for a better fund?  I asked Utmost if I needed a financial advisor but they told me no.  Probably don't want me switching. Im paying them a hefty management fee but what incentive do they have to make me more money not less as if there isnt one, it doesn't sound like a good investment for me. 

Replies

  • AlbermarleAlbermarle Forumite
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    It is 7.6 % down year to date. I think most middle of the road pension fund investors would be happy with that.

    and I naively thought maybe Utmost would take advantage of that but it seems not. 
    The type of investment managers who can sometimes make profits from adversity, are the ones taking very high risks. Not really suitable for your retirement pot !

     Im paying them a hefty management fee but what incentive do they have to make me more money not less as if there isnt one, it doesn't sound like a good investment for me. 
    I can not comment on an unknown fee(s) . However as a general rule, the funds/investments that made the most money in the last few years, are the ones that have crashed to earth in the last year. If you are happy with these wild gyrations in value, then you should ask Utmost to invest in more risky funds for you, in the hope of higher growth. However be prepared for a much bumpier ride.
  • jak22jak22 Forumite
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    Maybe it's due to the bonds element, the multi asset cautious seems to have an even higher proportion of bonds and is doing even worse - though maybe not as bad as the bond fund which might also have been thought of as a lower risk option before the last few months.
  • dunstonhdunstonh Forumite
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    I wont pretend to understand how these investments work but it only seems to be going in one direction.
    Then tehre is a problem if you are seeing that as its certainly not one direction.    Markets started falling around November 2021 and initially bottomed out in June.  They then went up over Summer before falling to a new low in October.  Since then they have been rising again (or largely stable over the last week or two).

    I presume this is because of Putins war and the energy crisis and I naively thought maybe Utmost would take advantage of that but it seems not. 
    Utmost have no control over events.  Your investment fund has a remit and it cannot invest outside of that remit. 

     I asked Utmost if I needed a financial advisor but they told me no.  Probably don't want me switching. Im paying them a hefty management fee but what incentive do they have to make me more money not less as if there isnt one, it doesn't sound like a good investment for me. 
    Utmost is an easy one for an IFA to justify moving out of.  An FA, less so.





    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
  • barryd999barryd999 Forumite
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    Thanks. So is it a case of just sitting it out for the long term?  I guess I have a choice of funds I can move it to or another provider but I would have no idea if Utmost is better or worse than others or which funds to go for.  I presume Utmost cant advise me and I wouldnt have a clue who to use as an IFA. Certainly not someone I didnt know.  What are others doing?
  • edited 14 December 2022 at 5:30AM
    JohnWinderJohnWinder Forumite
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    edited 14 December 2022 at 5:30AM

    You’re in a good position: the Utmost fund isn’t a disaster, so no rush for action; there are clearly better options, so there’s useful work to be done choosing one; you seem to have many years investing ahead, so it would be worthwhile getting a grasp of the important, big picture issues, as this might benefit you financially and certainly give you peace of mind. Where to start?

    You have and will get some good investing advice here and elsewhere, but my sense is that it doesn’t help people in the longer term because it’s hard to know which of the advice is good/bad, and it won’t stick with you for the long term and things change. Your interests are best served by gaining an understanding of personal investing to a level that you can almost offer advice to other people; that will serve you well, even if you choose to get a financial advisor. To achieve that you need enough interest in the topic and just average ‘smarts’.

    ‘Im paying them a hefty management fee but what incentive do they have to make me more money not less as if there isnt one,’

    Their incentive is that the bigger your fund grows the more they collect in fees, and the more attractive the fund looks to other investors. Your interests are aligned, but their fall-back position for the fund failing to keep its investors is to wind it up and offer a new fund, or repackage it and hope investors don’t see through the ruse. Your fall-back position is to walk.

    The Utmost fund is good because it’s well diversified and has a mix that would suit the average person you seem to be; ignore its performance this year, it’s either reflecting the markets or it’s worse or better than the markets in which case it could reverse its fortunes next year. Past performance is just so little use. The fund is less good because it’s more expensive than you need to pay for that type (see footnote), and it’s probably going to disappoint compared to some other choices because the managers try to predict what assets will do well/less well in the future - on average, a lost cause.

    Where to next? The monevator site is said to have some sensible information, and this link to van Ness videos which are nicely gentle, opens a door to a treasure trove of good information.

    https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Video:Bogleheads®_investment_philosophy. Good luck.

    As a footnote: Utmost charges 0.75%/year for that fund; a comparable option would be 0.4%. 0.35%/year doesn’t seem much, but for £30,000 invested for 20 years there would be £4000 more for you. And if that’s not enough reward, we also push down fees when move to lower fee funds which helps all investors; and fees in UK are higher than other places, so there’s room to push them down. Let’s give them a nudge.

  • barryd999barryd999 Forumite
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    You’re in a good position: the Utmost fund isn’t a disaster, so no rush for action; there are clearly better options, so there’s useful work to be done choosing one; you seem to have many years investing ahead, so it would be worthwhile getting a grasp of the important, big picture issues, as this might benefit you financially and certainly give you peace of mind. Where to start?

    You have and will get some good investing advice here and elsewhere, but my sense is that it doesn’t help people in the longer term because it’s hard to know which of the advice is good/bad, and it won’t stick with you for the long term and things change. Your interests are best served by gaining an understanding of personal investing to a level that you can almost offer advice to other people; that will serve you well, even if you choose to get a financial advisor. To achieve that you need enough interest in the topic and just average ‘smarts’.

    ‘Im paying them a hefty management fee but what incentive do they have to make me more money not less as if there isnt one,’

    Their incentive is that the bigger your fund grows the more they collect in fees, and the more attractive the fund looks to other investors. Your interests are aligned, but their fall-back position for the fund failing to keep its investors is to wind it up and offer a new fund, or repackage it and hope investors don’t see through the ruse. Your fall-back position is to walk.

    The Utmost fund is good because it’s well diversified and has a mix that would suit the average person you seem to be; ignore its performance this year, it’s either reflecting the markets or it’s worse or better than the markets in which case it could reverse its fortunes next year. Past performance is just so little use. The fund is less good because it’s more expensive than you need to pay for that type (see footnote), and it’s probably going to disappoint compared to some other choices because the managers try to predict what assets will do well/less well in the future - on average, a lost cause.

    Where to next? The monevator site is said to have some sensible information, and this link to van Ness videos which are nicely gentle, opens a door to a treasure trove of good information.

    https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Video:Bogleheads®_investment_philosophy. Good luck.

    As a footnote: Utmost charges 0.75%/year for that fund; a comparable option would be 0.4%. 0.35%/year doesn’t seem much, but for £30,000 invested for 20 years there would be £4000 more for you. And if that’s not enough reward, we also push down fees when move to lower fee funds which helps all investors; and fees in UK are higher than other places, so there’s room to push them down. Let’s give them a nudge.

    Thats brilliant thanks!  I will have a read through the link provided and try and get my head around it all.  I think the trouble is for people like me  you stumble into these things and only visit them now and again, usually when things go bad so you never fully understand them.
  • AlbermarleAlbermarle Forumite
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    barryd999 said:
    Thanks. So is it a case of just sitting it out for the long term?  I guess I have a choice of funds I can move it to or another provider but I would have no idea if Utmost is better or worse than others or which funds to go for.  I presume Utmost cant advise me and I wouldnt have a clue who to use as an IFA. Certainly not someone I didnt know.  What are others doing?
    The large majority are invested via their work pensions, and have little/zero understanding of how it works. A sizeable % do not even know that they are actually have investments in the pension.

    Some people, with mainly bigger pots ( >£100K) pay for advice. This can be with a local IFA ( not really necessary to know them, but local recommendations can be good ), an FA with say a local bank or building society branch or with a national wealth management company. You can also get advice ( paid for of course) from some investment platforms/pension providers as well.

    Many of the providers offer general guidance and make it as easy as possible to invest, often by using similar funds to the one you hold

    Or you can do some reading and if you have the inclination, DIY , like most of the regular contributors to this forum. However an investments forum is not very representative of the public at large .
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