Double dipping PCN, Civil Enforcement Ltd. - Claim form received

trivialgale

Hello everyone,

I am writing to ask advice on writing my defence for a PCN issued against me by Civil enforcement ltd. in a case of double dipping.

Brief summary and actions taken

I was issued a PCN from Civil Enforcement LTD. claiming my car had overstayed the 3 hour limit in [editedto remove car park address]. Two trips were taken on the day, firstly in convoy with my other half to give her a lift home after [edited to remove detail of visit]. Second trip was to drop her off later in the day so [edited to rremove detail of trip]. Civil enforcement LTD have an image of my car entering the car park on the first visit and exiting on the second. Their ANPR cameras have failed to register both trips, a case of 'double dipping'. I have photographic evidence showing my car parked on my driveway during the time it was supposed to be at the car park. I do not have google maps location services enabled so cannot use location services to provide further evidence.

Unfortunately, I sent an appeal to CE Ltd after the appeal date had passed and so this appeal was denied.

I have complained to Halfords firstly over the phone, a manager couldn’t get the PCN withdrawn. The more recent complaint has been passed on to another department and I’m fairly sure has been ignored. I have a letter to the MP for my previous address ready to go and will also send this to my MP representing the constituency at my current address today.

Having received numerous letters demanding payment from CE LTD. and then DCB legal LTD over the past year, I returned home today to find a claim form from the County Court Business Centre. Issue of claim 28th Nov 2022.

I have previously received a 'Letter of claim' from DCB legal and replied with a request the process be put on hold as I was seeking debt advice and also sent a SAR to CE ltd.

Next steps and dates

Issue of claim =28th Nov 2022.

5 days added for service dates = 3rd Dec 2022.

14 days to acknowledge = 17th Dec 2022.

Further 14 days from AOS until defence should be submitted = 31 Dec 2022.

1) I have read the Court Claim procedure post by bargepole and plan on following that advice.

2) I have read the money claim online document on how to acknowledge service and I plan on completing this process shortly.

3) I have started a defence template based on Coupon-mad's post however am asking for advice on details to add specifically about double dipping.

My first draft at a description of the event that I plan on using in my defence is as follows:

 

My partner and I visited the Halfords garage at [edited to remove car park address] and two visits were made on this day in order to drop her [edited to remove detail of trip]. My car was used to pick her up [removed detail], and later to drop her off so she could [removed detail]. Both stays in the car park did not exceed approximately 20 minutes. I have since received a parking charge notice claiming my car was in the car park for more than 3 hours with photos showing my car entering on the first trip at [edited to remove time of first entrance] and exiting on the second trip at [edited to remove time of second exit]. Civil Enforcement Ltd.’s ANPR cameras have failed to register my car exiting the car park on my first trip and entering on my second visit. I have attached photographic evidence below, obtained from my video doorbell, showing that my car was not in the car park for more than 3 hours and clearly showing that it was in fact on my driveway.

The pictures obtained from the doorbell show a timestamp in the corner of each image and clearly show my car's number plate and reg. I also have an invoice from [edited to remove detail] sent to my partner showing that she visited [edited out] on the day in question, not sure if this is required. She also has agreed to provide a witness statement confirming the events.

Any advice and help on improving my defence are greatly appreciated.

Cheers!

 

Ed2022

You have a a strong case if it does get to a hearing and the detail sufficient for a good DS. It maybe then that CEL will send a letter offering a compromise offer, don't take it. Go all the way and claim for costs at the end.

KeithP

trivialgale said:

Next steps and dates

Issue of claim =28th Nov 2022.

5 days added for service dates = 3rd Dec 2022.

14 days to acknowledge = 17th Dec 2022.

Further 14 days from AOS until defence should be submitted = 31 Dec 2022.

 You seem to have a good understanding of the process, just slight adjustment to your target dates as nothing will be due on a Saturday, Sunday or Bank Holiday.

With a Claim Issue Date of 28th November, you have until Monday 19th December to file an Acknowledgment of Service but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Tuesday 3rd January 2023 to file your Defence.

That's over three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Coupon-mad

Could you show an ID-redacted photo of the claim form that also (IMPORTANT) covers up the claim number, your VRM and the MCOL password please?  Never show that!

I want a pic of a CEL Claim filed by DCB Legal, to show to the DLUHC about something.

Fruitcake

Note that the defence should be written in the third person, so defendant and partner, not me, myself, or I.

If this is a continuation of your other thread, then you would have been better posting there rather than starting a new thread.

trivialgale

Ed2022 said:

You have a a strong case if it does get to a hearing and the detail sufficient for a good DS. It maybe then that CEL will send a letter offering a compromise offer, don't take it. Go all the way and claim for costs at the end.

Cheers Ed2022, I have read a few posts mentioning there may be some attempt of the claimant trying to settle out of court which I don't intend on doing. I'll definitely be going all the way!

KeithP said:

trivialgale said:

Next steps and dates

Issue of claim =28th Nov 2022.

5 days added for service dates = 3rd Dec 2022.

14 days to acknowledge = 17th Dec 2022.

Further 14 days from AOS until defence should be submitted = 31 Dec 2022.

 You seem to have a good understanding of the process, just slight adjustment to your target dates as nothing will be due on a Saturday, Sunday or Bank Holiday.

With a Claim Issue Date of 28th November, you have until Monday 19th December to file an Acknowledgment of Service but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Tuesday 3rd January 2023 to file your Defence.

That's over three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Hi KeithP, thanks for responding and looking at those dates. I wasn't sure about weekends etc. when I was adding them up so was being safe there by including them, good to know! I'll be following "the second post in the NEWBIES thread." info very carefully.

Coupon-mad said:

Could you show an ID-redacted photo of the claim form that also (IMPORTANT) covers up the claim number, your VRM and the MCOL password please?  Never show that!

I want a pic of a CEL Claim filed by DCB Legal, to show to the DLUHC about something.

Hi Coupon-mad, i've attached the redacted first page of the claim form, if you want any of the other pages let me know. The rest of the form seems fairly generic and includes the 'Response pack', and 'Acknowledgement of service'.

Fruitcake said:

Note that the defence should be written in the third person, so defendant and partner, not me, myself, or I.

If this is a continuation of your other thread, then you would have been better posting there rather than starting a new thread.

Thanks Fruitcake, and also thankyou for your replies to my previous post. I've started a new thread to focus on the defence process as it appears as though the PCN isn't getting cancelled unfortunately.

I will change to writing in the third person cheers!

Coupon-mad

Thanks for that pic but don't post a new thread.  No new threads about the same case please!

KeithP

Coupon-mad said:

No new threads about the same case please!

Already has. This is the second thread about the one incident.  

trivialgale

Hi there,

I'm writing my defence and have been reading the government's private parking code of practice (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-parking-code-of-practice/private-parking-code-of-practice ), published March 2022. I'm wondering if I can use this in my defence as it was published after the date my alleged offence took place?

I'm also wondering if it matters that the code of practice has been withdrawn "pending review of the levels of private parking charges and additional fees "?

I've struggled to find any defence and witness statements of cases that have gone to court. The forum post of double dipping cases doesn't seem to show any relevant examples of legislation or previous cases that can be used in a defence. Does anyone know of any I could quote or use as examples in my defence?

Any help greatly appreciated.

Ed2022

trivialgale said:

Hi there,

I'm writing my defence and have been reading the government's private parking code of practice (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-parking-code-of-practice/private-parking-code-of-practice ), published March 2022. I'm wondering if I can use this in my defence as it was published after the date my alleged offence took place?

I'm also wondering if it matters that the code of practice has been withdrawn "pending review of the levels of private parking charges and additional fees "?

I've struggled to find any defence and witness statements of cases that have gone to court. The forum post of double dipping cases doesn't seem to show any relevant examples of legislation or previous cases that can be used in a defence. Does anyone know of any I could quote or use as examples in my defence?

Any help greatly appreciated.

Hi Gale

This might help: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5550336/double-dip-parking-list-of-cases/p1

Double dipping without parking https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6350855/pcn-for-double-dipping-without-stopping/p8

Hope this helps.

Coupon-mad

The template defence already fully covers parts of the incoming DLUHC Code (albeit stalled) but the double dip section is worth quoting in your facts.

Guess who got that phrase into the new Code?!