PCN from CPM

Standurground

Hi experts in PCNs,

I am hoping to get some insight as to the actions I should/could take in regards to the PCN received from CPM.

Before I found and read this discussion page on this site I received a PCN for not having a Permit and breaching parking T&Cs in a residential car park.

PCN is dated 08/08/22. From 10/08/22 I was out of the country so PCN didn't arrive before 10/08/22. I appealed online on 25/08/22, still within 21 days of notice date. I didn't dispute to parking but only max 30 minutes (there was no minimum free parking time allowed) and asked if I could have it reduced to a £60 initial discounted penalty charge as I could not have paid within 14 days time from the issued date.

No response received to my appeal not in the postal letter or via email. Their automated response said to contact them after 35 days if no answer received yet here is no contact email or telephone number provided for obvious reasons. I have my appeal reference but not the copy of my actual appeal as I have foolishly assumed they would email me the copy of the appeal. However I was merely stating the facts that I was out of the country and was not able to pay within 14 days and attached my flight itineraries/boarding cards.

Since then I received a demand letter for £170 from Debt Recovery Plus to pay within 14 days.

I have read extensively the Newbies section on PCNs and expect I should wait until I receive a LBC, do not complete it, instead request a SAR from the CPM's DPO and email their solicitor to notify of it and put the case 'on hold' for no less than 30 days whilst I seek debt advice etc.

Thereafter I expect I will receive a court claim and have to be prepared to defend my case as to the charges being unreasonable, unlawful and penalising over and beyond the decision in Parking Eye v Beavis etc.

Or should I pay £170 now and avoid the CCC which might be higher than this in case it goes in claimant's favour in case I haven't prepared a strong defence?

Your insightful advise would be greatly appreciated.

Coupon-mad

Or should I pay £170 now and avoid the CCC which might be higher than this in case it goes in claimant's favour in case I haven't prepared a strong defence?

Nope!  Do not pay.  Send UKCPM a SAR.

Mouse007

Standurground said:

I received a PCN for not having a Permit and breaching parking T&Cs in a residential car park.

Why were you parked in a residential car park, was this your own residential car park, were you visiting a friend, were you making a delivery/collecting something? and what kind of space did you park in? marked/unmarked bay, visitor space, disabled?

Did you see any signs?

Standurground

Hi Mouse007,

I did park there for what seemed like only max 30 minutes as had to pick up my prescription and other items from the nearby pharmacy located in the shopping mall and visited a friend who lives close but not in the block of flats opposite the car park. I did park in the marked bay as all bays have line markings but it didn't have residential parking marked on it.

There are 2 signs placed on the sides at each entry to the car park which is opposite a block of flats. Print is relatively small but you can only see the signs if you are inside the car park standing opposite in front of them, and less visible when you are sitting in a vehicle unless. It is not visible directly when you enter or leave the car park.

However I am not defending for parking there, its my bad, slap on the wrist, but I am disputing that the charge, despite my appeal and having no response from UK PCM to date has swiftly turned into £170 with a debt recovery letter.

In the PCN they provided 2 x pictures of my car showing miniature times (I can't read them with my glasses on) and copy of the sing so no issues from that point proving I was there.

I attach sign picture which is done from very close up distance.

Coupon-mad

"However I am not defending for parking there, its my bad, slap on the wrist, but I am disputing that the charge, despite my appeal and having no response from UK PCM to date has swiftly turned into £170 with a debt recovery letter." 

Yep, we agree, your parking was bad but that sum is extortion. There is no appeal so fight it in court next year.  If you move house make sure you tell UKCPM.

And if popping to a pharmacy, don't ever seek out a private car park (or any car park). What you did is classed as fly parking, trespass essentially and it's precisely why PPC s exist.

DO NOT LOOK FOR CAR PARKS TO PARK A CAR.

You can park on a single or double yellow on street (perfectly legal as long as there are no yellow blips on the kerb as well) to pick up a pre-booked item.  Loading/unloading is exempt activity on street and a brief stop like that cannot get a penalty.

Standurground

Thanks Coupon-mad and for the highway code reminder! It's been a while since I lad a lesson in that but appreciate your time to advise.

In regards to a SAR, shall I await for LBC to arrive first and then send UKCPM a SAR request or proceed now?

Also when I complete my witness statement later on when due in court do I concentrate on UKCPM breaching their own T&Cs and not following their IPC procedures by not providing a response to my filed appeal even if they think I had no grounds for appeal, or that's irrelevant and I should just base my case on PCN demand becoming excessive and unreasonable?

Coupon-mad

No need to delay the SAR email.  It will flush out your appeal letter and if they ever did respond.

Also when I complete my witness statement later on when due in court do I concentrate on UKCPM breaching their own T&Cs and not following their IPC procedures by not providing a response to my filed appeal even if they think I had no grounds for appeal, or that's irrelevant and I should just base my case on PCN demand becoming excessive and unreasonable?

Neither.  Appeals stuff isn't a defence to the PCN and you can't argue 'excessive charge'.

Standurground

Just wanted to update you on my SAR data request outcome from UKCPM. Interestingly they have responded but just after I spoke to someone at Debt Recovery and advised them I am prepping to go to court etc whenever that comes (and so now Debt Recovery are calling me via their automated calls demanding a payment of £170).

UK CPM has responded to SAR request. Their shared information includes apparently sent emails to me shows with response to my online appeal and offered to reduce it back to £60 as I was away abroad and never had the chance to pay the reduced amount. Yet I never received this email! Also they showing that they've emailed me on my second online appeal chasing response to the first appeal and now asking for a full £100 to be paid - I also never received that email!

Now just so you know I am reviewing my emails and junk emails scrupulously but I have never seen their emails nor can I find it anywhere in my inbox or a junk folder. There is a date and time shown as in hh/mm but not showing seconds when the emails were sent.

I suspect those response emails are falsified. They present as if they have responded to the appeals but never actually sent those emails but keep reproduce them for SAR and court purposes.

How can they have emails showing being sent which actually were never received yet I received their original email from' UK-CPM Ltd <noreply@cpmappeals.co.uk>' acknowledging my submitted appeals but not their response to appeal emails from 'No Reply | CPM Appeals'?!

I definitely know I haven't received those emails but how can I prove it, what can I ask them to send to prove those emails were actually electronically sent?

I have read a few people saying the same thing on this thread so it doesn't seem to be a one off occurrence.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can contribute with some answers/positive input.

Coupon-mad

 I spoke to someone at Debt Recovery and advised them I am prepping to go to court etc whenever that comes (and so now Debt Recovery are calling me via their automated calls demanding a payment of £170.

This is why we advise NEVER to phone such debt crawlers.  There was no reason (ever) to call them.

Can you copy & paste the email they say was sent, redacting only your name/VRM and your own email address, but showing all headers and time/date?

Grizebeck

Stop speaking on the phone to these idiots

Standurground

I attached a copy of their 'claimed' email sent as a response to my appeal. There is a second email which they claim was sent on **/**/22 a couple of weeks after I have chased UK CPM to respond to my original appeal. It is exactly the same but now claiming we emailed you our response to appeal on **/**/22 and as the PCN was not paid now £100 was due. Neither emails were ever delivered to me as a recipient despite correct email address displaying on their headers. I believe it's a forgery as opposed to malfunction in their email system. As why would you want £60 if you are prepared to get £170.