Smart meter pricing on non peak tariff

[Deleted User]

It seems like my IHD does not like Thursdays!

It has got nothing to do with the IHD. The IHD gets its data from your electricity meter and the gas proxy meter located in the comms hub.

All you can do is wait until you receive a statement.

Pat38493

[Deleted User] said:

It seems like my IHD does not like Thursdays!

It has got nothing to do with the IHD. The IHD gets its data from your electricity meter and the gas proxy meter located in the comms hub.

All you can do is wait until you receive a statement.

OK but that's not what I understood from other posters earlier in this thread?  They claimed that any pricing shown on the IHD is coming from data that is being calculated by the IHD itself - the meter does not store pricing only usage?

Interestingly I know that BG programmed in the past the ability to do things by day of week because they once had an offer tariff where you got free electric on either Saturday or Sunday from 9 to 5.

[Deleted User]

From the SMETS2 Technical Specification:

‘5.4.8.5 Cost of Consumption data

ESME shall be capable of calculating and recording in the Cumulative and Historical Value Store(5.6.4.11) the cost of:

i. Consumption on the Day up to the Local Time;

ii. Consumption on each of the eight Days prior to such Day;

iii. Consumption in the Week in which the calculation is performed;

iv. Consumption in each of the five Weeks prior to such Week;

v. Consumption in the month in which the calculation is performed; and

vi. Consumption in the thirteen months prior to such month.

ESME shall be capable of calculating cost of Consumption as above on the basis of:

vii. the Consumption in the Tariff TOU Register Matrix(5.6.4.34) and the Prices in the

Tariff TOU Price Matrix(5.6.3.46) and, if operating Time-of-use with Block Pricing, the Consumption in the Tariff TOU Block Register Matrix(5.6.4.35) and the Prices in the Tariff Block Price Matrix(5.6.3.43); and

viii. the Standing Charge(5.6.3.39).’

The BG ‘Free Weekend Offer’ used 2 of the 4 index registers built into the ESME. Billed electricity was recorded on one register and Free electricity recorded on the other.

Octopus Agile has 48 by 30 minute unit cost periods each day. The supplier could update the tariff in every meter at midnight each night. It chooses not to do so. It sends an average tariff to the ESME. The IHD displays a cost based on the average unit price.

For gas, a gas proxy meter built into the communications hub does the cost calculations based on 30 minute usage and tariff data from the GSME. The gas proxy meter is needed to protect GSME battery life. If the IHD was doing the calculations, then there would be no need for a gas proxy meter.

Pat38493

[Deleted User] said:

From the SMETS2 Technical Specification:

‘5.4.8.5 Cost of Consumption data

ESME shall be capable of calculating and recording in the Cumulative and Historical Value Store(5.6.4.11) the cost of:

i. Consumption on the Day up to the Local Time;

ii. Consumption on each of the eight Days prior to such Day;

iii. Consumption in the Week in which the calculation is performed;

iv. Consumption in each of the five Weeks prior to such Week;

v. Consumption in the month in which the calculation is performed; and

vi. Consumption in the thirteen months prior to such month.

ESME shall be capable of calculating cost of Consumption as above on the basis of:

vii. the Consumption in the Tariff TOU Register Matrix(5.6.4.34) and the Prices in the

Tariff TOU Price Matrix(5.6.3.46) and, if operating Time-of-use with Block Pricing, the Consumption in the Tariff TOU Block Register Matrix(5.6.4.35) and the Prices in the Tariff Block Price Matrix(5.6.3.43); and

viii. the Standing Charge(5.6.3.39).’

The BG ‘Free Weekend Offer’ used 2 of the 4 index registers built into the ESME. Billed electricity was recorded on one register and Free electricity recorded on the other.

Octopus Agile has 48 by 30 minute unit cost periods each day. The supplier could update the tariff in every meter at midnight each night. It chooses not to do so. It sends an average tariff to the ESME. The IHD displays a cost based on the average unit price.

For gas, a gas proxy meter built into the communications hub does the cost calculations based on 30 minute usage and tariff data from the GSME. The gas proxy meter is needed to protect GSME battery life. If the IHD was doing the calculations, then there would be no need for a gas proxy meter.

As mentioned earlier in the thread my meter is not SMETS2 but probably that doesn’t change what you are saying.

Anyway - the other impression I took away from earlier was that it shouldn’t matter if my IHD is displaying wrong pricing (whether it’s being done by the IHD or by the proxy meter) because the supplier will in any case re-calculate everything based on the quantities at billing time?

To re-state the issue - there are certain days (always Thursdays so far but that could be a coincidence) that my IHD does not apply the 12p off peak tariff to my usage during that time, but on the other days it does this correctly.

[Deleted User]

it shouldn’t matter if my IHD is displaying wrong pricing (whether it’s being done by the IHD or by the proxy meter) because the supplier will in any case re-calculate everything based on the quantities at billing time?

Correct, IHDs are there to inform. They are not used for billing. 

My IHD doesn’t apply the daily standing charge (DSC) for gas - and it hasn’t done for 3 1/2 years. Two sets of SMETS2 meters and 2 IHDs on, the problem persists. The most likely reason is that the gas proxy meter built into the comms hub is not picking up the DSC from the GSME. I suspect that I will have to wait until 4G hubs are rolled out before it gets fixed. All my statements have been spot on.

_Sam_

Dolor said:

Smart meters have 4 registers. You need to check that your usage is being recorded on 2 registers. You will have to do this via the meter sub-menus. The index reading on the IHD is the sum of the 4 registers.

If you install the App BRIGHT it should show the tariffs that have been sent to your meter along with 30 minute usage ( if your meter is set up for this profile). You can then use this information to challenge any incorrect bills.

Interesting I have the Bright app installed, and it shows what looks like SVR rate for electricity 33.02p, however my tariff is Intelligent with 41p during the day and 10p during the night. Not sure if it maybe because I may have downloaded Bright before my tariff changed to the double rate one? 

At the same time the IDH does something completely different, it displays 10p electricity cost day and night. I haven't played with the smart meter itself (SMETS2) as it is outside in the cupboard.

The bill just arrived showing calculations according to the Intelligent double rate tariff, so all appears well, just weird how the app and IHD show different things, even thought I understood both should just be reporting what the smart meter tells them..

[Deleted User]

_Sam_ said:

Dolor said:

Smart meters have 4 registers. You need to check that your usage is being recorded on 2 registers. You will have to do this via the meter sub-menus. The index reading on the IHD is the sum of the 4 registers.

If you install the App BRIGHT it should show the tariffs that have been sent to your meter along with 30 minute usage ( if your meter is set up for this profile). You can then use this information to challenge any incorrect bills.

Interesting I have the Bright app installed, and it shows what looks like SVR rate for electricity 33.02p, however my tariff is Intelligent with 41p during the day and 10p during the night. Not sure if it maybe because I may have downloaded Bright before my tariff changed to the double rate one? 

At the same time the IDH does something completely different, it displays 10p electricity cost day and night. I haven't played with the smart meter itself (SMETS2) as it is outside in the cupboard.

The bill just arrived showing calculations according to the Intelligent double rate tariff, so all appears well, just weird how the app and IHD show different things, even thought I understood both should just be reporting what the smart meter tells them..

SMETS meters can accept a tariff of 48 by 30 minute blocks per day. This would require the supplier to update the tariff at midnight for those on Agile or Intelligent tariffs. Octopus has elected to set an average tariff price and it bill back in the office using 30 minute data.

Have a look at the apps Octopus Watch or Octo-Aid. The latter recovers usage etc via an API.

matelodave

SMETS1 meters work quite happily with the Bright app when they've been adopted by the DCC. My meter, installed in 2017 generates half hourly readings.

I dont know what it would do with a multirate tariff but as said above it the data that gets sent to and processed by your supplier that used for billing not the, random info that gets generated by the IHD.

sajirosy

_Sam_ said:

[Deleted User] said:

Smart meters have 4 registers. You need to check that your usage is being recorded on 2 registers. You will have to do this via the meter sub-menus. The index reading on the IHD is the sum of the 4 registers.

If you install the App BRIGHT it should show the tariffs that have been sent to your meter along with 30 minute usage ( if your meter is set up for this profile). You can then use this information to challenge any incorrect bills.

Interesting I have the Bright app installed, and it shows what looks like SVR rate for electricity 33.02p, however my tariff is Intelligent with 41p during the day and 10p during the night. Not sure if it maybe because I may have downloaded Bright before my tariff changed to the double rate one? 

At the same time the IDH does something completely different, it displays 10p electricity cost day and night. I haven't played with the smart meter itself (SMETS2) as it is outside in the cupboard.

The bill just arrived showing calculations according to the Intelligent double rate tariff, so all appears well, just weird how the app and IHD show different things, even thought I understood both should just be reporting what the smart meter tells them..

Hi Sam ,

I am having exactly same issues . readings on web/IHD / app and meter all a bit different for the same period of 10 days since I signed up. . I talked to BG and they asked me to give an updated peak time reading . Apparently that amnual  automatically corrected my off peak use on the web  from 12 to 22 KWH ( which was the number I had roughly calculated and told them ). My question is - do you know if the readings are enetered for off peak rate manually or automatically. I thought I read somewhere that the division is done manually and hence potential for errors.

2. have you had a second bill and are the numbers reasonably accurate . If that is the case I will just relax and just keep a gentle eye . My meter has a second rate reading ( R2)  which, to add to the confusion, shows 15KW for the off peak period.

Thank you  

dunstonh

I am having exactly same issues . readings on web/IHD / app and meter all a bit different for the same period of 10 days since I signed up. 

Bright cannot handle multi-charge tariffs.  The app gives the impression it does as it will show your split periods.    However, TOU pricing is fixed to GMT.   Bright will change the time to BST (or the timezone you are in if you are abroad).

So, when the UK is on GMT, the pricing should be correct.  But when we are on BST, the pricing will be wrong.  

Quite a few of the third party apps don't handle TOU very well.   I have found ivie and Hugo are the best in this respect.

. My question is - do you know if the readings are enetered for off peak rate manually or automatically. I thought I read somewhere that the division is done manually and hence potential for errors.

Smart meters require no manual adjustments for TOU as they switch based on the time on the meter.    Whilst previous generation non-smart meters could find their timer go out of sync (oven by over 12 hours), smart readers tend to be more reliable and periodically check the time and adjust it to keep it accurate.

2. have you had a second bill and are the numbers reasonably accurate . If that is the case I will just relax and just keep a gentle eye . My meter has a second rate reading ( R2)  which, to add to the confusion, shows 15KW for the off peak period.

Whilst there is no uniformity with meters, the majority of them have R1 as peak and R2 (or R4) as off peak.   So, when you give your meter readings, you would give both R1 and R2. (i.e. two boxes to input).   Not the total.