American Airlines business class seat malfunction PHL-LHR

born_again

How was the flights paid? Using points?

Jumblebumble

RetNurse said:

Thank you, Pinkshoes, the cabin and cockpit reports remain 'in-house' and are not given to the traveller.  But AA and presumably BA can access them for corroboration.   And indeed, it was only when we had just taken off that I discovered the seat malfunction.   No spare seats were available.  I do wonder if the passenger before me, and the one after, who occupied that same seat suffered the same problem...?
And thank you, DullGreyGuy for the link which took me to Phlump's posting, (? 5 years ago) similar to mine.  I am in complete sympathy with him.  In my case, BA have replied,
"Although I appreciate your reasons for asking, I am afraid that we can't offer you any refund in this situation. We value your loyalty as a Blue member of our Executive Club, and know this experience did not meet our usual standards. I’ve added 15,000 Avios to your Executive Club account, and hope this goes some way towards making up for what happened."
Given this, and further information on the internet, I see little point in taking it further and just have to chalk it up to experience.
Also, you are absolutely right: AA have given me 'bonus miles', which I misunderstood to be Avios.  So I guess they can only be used flying to the USA again.   The trouble is, once trust is broken and a seller has provided faulty goods with little redress, it does make me wonder about risking another booking with AA.   Ideally, there should be a detailed list of possible flight problems, beyond delays and cancellations, to include such a seat malfunction, being one of the major reasons for upgrading at some expense to business class, particularly on a long 8 hour flight.   It wasn't simply a minor inconvenience, but a significant set-back, for which a proportionate refund of the ticket cost should be refunded.   (Dream on!)
Thank you all for your replies, which are very much appreciated.

Ba will try and fob you off 


I would open a CEDR case as you have nothing to lose
https://www.headforpoints.com/2017/05/10/how-to-take-british-airways-to-court/

ThumbRemote

The_Unready said:

"Given this, and further information on the internet, I see little point in taking it further and just have to chalk it up to experience."

I wouldn't accept that so easily. Start by trying one of the ' consumer champions' in the financial sections of the national newspapers.

If that doesn't work, consider an LBA and a subsequent small claims case.

There is no justification whatsoever in the airline denying you a service that you've paid for, or fobbing you off with 'airmiles' that have to be 'spent' with that airline anyway!

Outrageous!

If you read the thread linked by DullGreyGuy above, it is clear that legally the Montreal Convention applies and over-rides UK law. Therefore there are extremely limited rights. 

RetNurse

Thanks, eskbanker, I think there should be a legal list of 'failure of service' events with stated proportionate refunds for same.   Would this be so impossible to implement?
And thanks, DullGreyGuy, for explaining the bonus miles business; I appreciate it.
Also thanks, The_Unready, for your thought.   It has occurred to me to try The Saturday Times Troubleshooter but my energy levels have let me down.  - If I rally, I shall do so: nothing ventured and at least, if it's published, it may yield helpful results for more than myself. 
And thanks, Gavin83, I suspect the airlines bank on one not bothering to go to court.   I'm trying to put the experience into perspective: I had access to the Admiral's lounge at Philadelphia (such as it is: not a patch on Heathrow Terminal 3's lounge); (Philadelphia check-in was a free-for-all with no priority); I was served food and drink on board: I had a solo, more spacious, window seat, albeit stuck rigid; and I got from A to B.   So, weighing things up, I doubt it would be worth the effort.   The more I think about it, Publicity may be the better way to gain a more effective outcome, i.e. The Times.  
born_again: no, the flight was not paid with points.   An infrequent flyer, I am a stranger to this points/miles business.
If I make any progress, I'll post it here.   Meanwhile, many thanks indeed to all of you who have been kind enough to comment and offer advice.   I really appreciate it.

eskbanker

RetNurse said:

Thanks, eskbanker, I think there should be a legal list of 'failure of service' events with stated proportionate refunds for same.   Would this be so impossible to implement?

I imagine it would be - there's nothing to stop you lobbying your MP about it but in the general scheme of things I'd be astonished if something so niche was considered worthy of legislating for, and agreeing where to draw the line would be problematic.  I can understand why a technical problem with a seat would be an issue for you on an overnight flight but others would be mightily displeased if their preferred brand of whisky was unavailable by the time the drinks trolley reached them, and so on!

Perhaps worth bearing in mind that the existing EU (then separately incorporated into UK legislation) regulations only expressly included entitlement to compensation in cancellation scenarios, and it took the intervention of a European court to clarify that a delay of at least three hours is to be treated in the same way.

However, there has apparently been post-Brexit talk of the UK unilaterally amending the regulations, potentially including a direct correlation between compensation and ticket price, but I suspect that this will remain focused on delay and cancellation rather than the plethora of other issues that can affect the enjoyment of a flight:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79648262/#Comment_79648262

However, as your flight was operated by an American airline into the UK, that's not even within the scope of the existing UK legislation anyway, i.e. you wouldn't have had any legal recourse (other than Ts & Cs) if it had been cancelled or delayed significantly....

RetNurse

Thanks, escbanker.   If one were to ask people why they pay to fly business class, especially overnight, I think 5 things would be vying for a place at the top of the list: priority check-in, extra baggage, the lounge, priority boarding, and a roomier seat which reclines fully into a bed.   For me, it was the last on the list, being elderly and in poor health, needing to do all in my power to arrive home rested.   And it was a significant failure, which for 8 hours of discomfort hardly compares to feeling miffed about one glass of whisky!   The crew agreed, logged the event, and told me to seek redress.   Of course I take your point that every single failure would be ridiculous to claim for, but one of those 5 things could be recognised as significant, surely, beyond delay and cancellation?   It's a question of trust as much as anything; one wants to know one will receive what one has paid for.   And paid up front, in good faith, with money, not points  -  so only fair to refund that undelivered portion of the contract also in money.   ?

eskbanker

Don't get me wrong, I agree that it's not unreasonable for you to expect a more sympathetic response from the airline, but was just making the point that it would be an entirely different matter to justify a huge exercise of amending legislation to specify faults and remedies in sufficient detail to protect against such scenarios, which would need plenty of consultation with the already heavily regulated industry.  And, just to reiterate my last point, it wouldn't have helped you here anyway!

Do you feel strongly enough about it to engage with your MP?

DullGreyGuy

RetNurse said:

Thanks, escbanker.   If one were to ask people why they pay to fly business class, especially overnight, I think 5 things would be vying for a place at the top of the list: priority check-in, extra baggage, the lounge, priority boarding, and a seat which reclines fully into a bed.   

I am sure for many the list could include extra (leg) room, better food/drinks/service, bragging rights and privacy... hence we are seeing the rise of the business suits with closing doors. 

I think the reality is we all travel Business/First etc for different reasons and we put different weightings on different aspects. Personally dont use the lay flat bed very often (and not all business classes have one) but then most my flights are to N. America so typically by the time you've taken off, had your dinner, let your dinner go down, watched a movie etc you're in a few hours kip not a 8 hours sleep territory, esp if you want to have the breakfast, so doesnt seem worth the hassle putting into bed mode. 

RetNurse said:

And it was a significant failure, which for 8 hours of discomfort hardly compares to feeling miffed about one glass of whisky!  

I'd agree with you but it does come down to priorities... on a cancelled flight we were denied being able to catch the next available flight as the agent decided to go see off a colleague and we were 3 days later getting to our destination. We obv got the cancelled flight compensation but for being separated from our friends and arriving 3 days later they offered £100pp in voucher form. 

On the flight three days later the Mrs found her roast potato had a sticker on it so clearly hadnt been cleaned properly... for that they offered £400 in vouchers. Personally, a 3 day delay is much more of an issue than a contaminate in food but they saw it very much the other way round. 

eskbanker

Perhaps also worth considering the optics and political ramifications of legislative changes perceived to be enacted for the privileged few, especially in the current environment....

MobileSaver

RetNurse said:

If one were to ask people why they pay to fly business class, especially overnight, I think 5 things would be vying for a place at the top of the list: priority check-in, extra baggage, the lounge, priority boarding, and a seat which reclines fully into a bed.  ...  so only fair to refund that undelivered portion of the contract also in money.   ?

Obviously the very top of the list for buying a Business (or any other class) ticket would be to get from destination A to destination B which the airline provided so the starting point is that any refund should be a percentage of the difference in costs between Economy and Business.

As you say, there's then a host of different perks that different people look forward to when justifying paying more for Business; off the top of my head I'd add better food and the bigger seat to your list and I'm sure other people have different ideals again. On that basis perhaps a refund of 10% of the difference between Business and Economy would be appropriate, is that the sort of figure you had in mind?