Heating bill

macman

I suspect that the EPC excludes the communal heating system, and is for electricity supply only, including the hot water?
As has been suggested, 2,200 kWh pa is ludicrously low for any property.
1,858 kWh pm if the heating is on for the whole month is not that excessive: it indicates an annual usage of maybe 10-12,000 kWh, since in the non-heating 6 months or so, the usage will be zero.

Alnat1

Team up with one of the others who is having the same problem and move in together for a month!
Turn off the heating in one flat and agree to divide the bill for the heating of the other. 

OK, I'm kind of joking but it would need a similar plan to prove if the billing system really could be trusted. Could it be there is only one meter for the whole building's heating and it gets divided by 60?

danco

The EPC does specifically have items for heating and hot water, and the figure I quoted is for heating only. I had assumed that the EPC would be correct, and I know that communal heating is supposed to use less energy than standard methods, and a very well-insulated flat. 

No, there are (a legal requirement) individual meters, but they aren't available to the residents.

The meters are read remotely, so in that sense they are smart.  But I don't think the metering firm offers any way for us to read them by an app. Different firms do provide such methods, and I am pressing for our freeholders to move.

But in the meantime, the question is whether my usage is excessive. Our unit prices haven't gone up yet. As far as I can see, if the figures are correct, I am using more energy in a modern well-insulated flat (rating than in my previous larger Victorian flat, which seems unlikely.

[Deleted User]

Odd question perhaps, but are you being metered for heat or for the input fuel?

Any idea what sort of boiler / CHP etc they are using in the communal system?

EssexHebridean

I’m also wondering whether this is gas or electricity being discussed here - the OP seems to be suggesting this is an all electric property but unless I’ve missed it there has been no absolute confirmation of that. 

If gas, then yes I’d agree that it seems reasonable. If it’s electric though it’s entirely implausible IMO. We used fractionally under 100kWh of electric last week - although we do heat to a lower level than the OP, but only by a degree. 2 bed flat, ground floor, but not a modern build. Windows and doors are decent - no cavity walls and concrete floor/ceilings mean we do lose heat / get a lot of cold transference that way though. Heating via storage heaters. 

[Deleted User]

Yes, I had heating on a lot, but not at a high temperature

Something doesn't quite ring true here. Firstly, if your flat is well insulated why did you need the heating on a lot in October? I live in a detached 4 bed house and our usage for heating and cooking was 428kWh in November. It was a very warmth month.

The meters are read remotely, so in that sense they are smart.  But I don't think the metering firm offers any way for us to read them by an app. 

I know very little about communal heating but I thought that the heating provider was selected by the Leaseholder who would also be responsible for the meters. Smart metering in flats is a challenge unless your provider invests in something like Alt-Han.

That said, there must be some forum you can use to engage with your heating provider. If you are still unhappy then raise a complaint against the heating provider. I believe that complaints now be escalated to The Energy Ombudsman: that said, you will need something more than a suspicion to win your case.

redbuzzard

I don't recognise 1800kWh as reasonable. Have you overlooked a decimal point?  My heat pump output (not input) for November was 700kWh (edited after checking), that includes DHW and it's a 210 sq. metre house, albeit a well insulated one with mechanical ventilation and heat recovery (also EPC . Our thermostats in the living areas are at 22.5 C. 

If your EPC says 2200kWh, to use almost all of that in a very mild November is simply not credible is it? 

born_again

danco said:

I live in a modern block of flats which has a communal heating system. I (and some of the other residents) have always felt there is something wrong with the bills we receive, but the company insists that the metering is correct.

My flats is a two-bedroom top-floor flat, area about 100 square metres, and the EPC reckons an energy rating of B, with annual usage of 2200 kWh.

I have just received the bill for November. This is the first month since April that I have had heating on significantly (though I had cooling in the summer).

Yes, I had heating on a lot, but not at a high temperature.

Claimed usage on the bill was 1858 kWh.

I had heating set at 19.5 degrees during the day, with a night setback between 10 p.m. and 8 a.m. of 14 degrees.

What do people think? Is it likely that i could have used this much energy in heating? The weather has been cooling down, but surely not that cold. I reckon that with heating off the temperature is still around 14 degrees, I'll check that again tomorrow.

Surely a top floor flat will use & lose more heat than any below.
But up here in the north with 3 dec temps overnight. Stat set on 17 dec overnight heating has been kicking in. 19C the rest of the time 06:00 to 22:00 2 bed bungalow. Last months gas 436.3 kWh. 
Annual cost for gas & electric is just over £2K

Astria

redbuzzard said:

I don't recognise 1800kWh as reasonable. Have you overlooked a decimal point?  My heat pump output (not input) for November was c. 500kWh, that includes DHW and it's a 210 sq. metre house, albeit a well insulated one with mechanical ventilation and heat recovery (also EPC . Our thermostats in the living areas are at 22.5 C.

In comparison, I used 90 kWh in October, and around 800 kWh in November, and the heating is on all day, every day as I WFH.

danco

It's London, by the way. No, 1800 is the figure.

Heating is by gas boilers heating a refrigerant fluid that is pumped to the flats, and we can then switch on the heating (warm air heated by the fluid) as we wish. There is a heat pump and solar panels but I have no idea what those contribute.

The bill is for November, not October.

As yet, the Ombudsman has no power to investigate communal heating, though this will come in.

I am in discussion with the freeholder, but since the metering firm insist the readings are correct it's very difficult to go anywhere. I was hoping that I could get enough comparisons here to provide a basis for argument . However, it seems that too few people have any experience of communal heating to give help. I think it's time for me to keep quiet. I appreciate the comments, but they are obviously getting me nowhere.