LL stating access will be given to contractor despite permission being denied

_Penny_Dreadful

propertyrental said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

macman said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

macman said:

If you don't have access to a fully functioning bath or shower then the LL should be rehousing you for the duration of the work, at their expense. If the dog is permitted under your AST, then they need to rehouse the dog too...

Can you please quote the legislation that requires the landlord to do either of those things?

Homes (Fitness for Human Habitation) Act 2018

There is also a breach of the terms of the AST if the home is uninhabitable due to the LL's action or inaction, so the tenant could sue.
And a breach of Section 11 of the Landlords and Tenants Act 2016, which has clearly occurred here, renders the LL liable for the costs of alternative accommodation (though technically not liable to actually provide the accommodation).
But any sane LL would arrange the accommodation themselves, rather than leaving the tenant to find it, and so effectively writing a blank cheque.

Neither of those pieces of legislation require the landlord to provide, or pay for, alternative accommodation for the tenants never mind their dog.  A landlord is only legally required to provide alternative accommodation if there is a clause in the tenancy agreement saying they must.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/moving_out_during_repairs

I'm highly dubious about Shelter's advice here, despite having a lot of respect for them generakky.

If the property is 'uninhabitable' (itself subject to legal interpretation), a contract exists, and rent is being paid, then the LL is clearly in breach of contract by not providing habitable accommodation. The tenant could therefore sue for any consequential losses and costs, eg removals if required, hotel accommodation etc.

Certainly there have been cases where this has happened though, sorry, I can't immediately provide links!

It's for this reason that most landlords insurance policies will cover:

"We will pay you for costs of reasonable

alternative accommodation for your

tenants and temporary storage of your

tenants furniture while the residential

portion of the property cannot be lived

in or access is denied as a result of

damage. This cover will only apply where

we have made a payment or accepted

liability under the Buildings section of

this policy."

https://www.axa.co.uk/globalassets/pdfs/landlord/policy-docs/2021-12/residential-landlords-policy-wording-direct--acld0520p-r-400052_web.pdf/

There is no indication this property in uninhabitable and the Homes (Fitness for Human Habitation) Act 2018 sets out what is considered habitable.  I cannot see anything from the OP that says this property in uninhabitable, inconvenient almost certainly but not uninhabitable.  Nor has there been any mention of the council issuing a prescribed hazard notice with category 1 hazards listed.

Just because an insurance policy offers additional cover doesn't mean the landlord has to provide alternative accommodation.  Hell, a landlord doesn't even need to take out insurance full stop.  It's like buying car insurance and opting for cover that gives you a courtesy car in the event that your car ends up out of action following an accident or theft.

_Penny_Dreadful

steampowered said:

Utterlyconfused81 said:

The property was advertised and tenancy taken on "recently refurbished and finished to a high standard throughout" basis. 

This is a key piece of information that noone else has mentioned yet.

If the property was advertised as "recently refurbished" when it was not, that is a fraudulent misrepresentation.

That would entitle the Op to terminate the contract if they so choose, in addition to claiming damages from LL via the court system, if the Op wanted to be more aggressive with this.

It doesn't entitle the tenant to terminate the contract.  If a misleading action or aggressive practice is a significant part of the reason a tenant signed up to rent a property then the tenant has some protections under The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.  Remedies that can be sought through the courts are the right to unwind the tenancy, a discount and damages.  If a tenancy agreement is unwound then the tenant becomes released from the contract, this is not the same as the tenant unilaterally deciding to terminate the contract which you suggested because it requires a court order.  Also to be able to unwind a tenancy agreement the tenant must inform the landlord within 90 days of the tenancy starting of their intention to have the tenancy unwound and I suspect the OP is well beyond the 90 day time-limit so that ship has sailed. 

OhWow

MobileSaver said:

OhWow said:

subjecttocontract said:

......and it's important to recognise that tenants are not entitled, by virtue of paying rent, to expect any better treatment than an owner occupier might expect in the same situation.

We moved out when we had work done on our bathroom. It's sad to think that some home owners can't afford to move out while repairs such as these are carried out.

It's little to do with being able to afford it; for most people it's simply not necessary, more trouble than it's worth and doing so would introduce even more hassles in life.

In thirty years of home ownership I've never felt the need to move out while doing even the most extensive building work and, thinking about it now, I can't think of a single family member or friend who has either.

You poor things. Moving into an Airbnb is cheap and avoids all the hassle, mess and inconvenince, of living with the building work. I can't think of a single family member or friend who hasn't done this.

However, this thread is about a business (a rental property) and the landlord should have bought insurance to cover the temporary housing of tenants.

diystarter7

OhWow said:

MobileSaver said:

OhWow said:

subjecttocontract said:

......and it's important to recognise that tenants are not entitled, by virtue of paying rent, to expect any better treatment than an owner occupier might expect in the same situation.

We moved out when we had work done on our bathroom. It's sad to think that some home owners can't afford to move out while repairs such as these are carried out.

It's little to do with being able to afford it; for most people it's simply not necessary, more trouble than it's worth and doing so would introduce even more hassles in life.

In thirty years of home ownership I've never felt the need to move out while doing even the most extensive building work and, thinking about it now, I can't think of a single family member or friend who has either.

You poor things. Moving into an Airbnb is cheap and avoids all the hassle, mess and inconvenince, of living with the building work. I can't think of a single family member or friend who hasn't done this.

However, this thread is about a business (a rental property) and the landlord should have bought insurance to cover the temporary housing of tenants.

Hi

What happens if the T had trashed the place or not turned the heating on and they were away and got a burst pipe? In all good contracts, it states about how to keep the property safe if you are away.

From what you said, if I was a T and the LL did not have the type of insurance you refer to I would not rent there. 

I think the insurance we have as LL's does cover rehousing in the event of the property being damaged by flood etc.

Thanks

Section62

OhWow said:

Moving into an Airbnb is cheap and avoids all the hassle, mess and inconvenince, of living with the building work. I can't think of a single family member or friend who hasn't done this.

It depends on the exact nature of the work, but as someone with experience in the industry I'd positively recommend that people remain living in the property while builders are working on it, if at all possible.

Far less scope for miscommunications, or builders taking shortcuts, when there is daily contact between householder and builder.

Temporarily moving out is Ok if you are happy to just let the traders get on with it and live with whatever bodges they do, or if you are Ok with making daily visits to make sure everything is being done as it is.  The difficulty with the latter is it can appear you are 'checking up' (or getting in the way) - which may lead to a less amicable relationship with the trader(s) - whereas being able to keep an eye on things because you are still living in the property means the supervision is more natural and accepted.

But if it works for you and your family and friends then all's good.

MobileSaver

OhWow said:

MobileSaver said:

OhWow said:

subjecttocontract said:

......and it's important to recognise that tenants are not entitled, by virtue of paying rent, to expect any better treatment than an owner occupier might expect in the same situation.

We moved out when we had work done on our bathroom. It's sad to think that some home owners can't afford to move out while repairs such as these are carried out.

It's little to do with being able to afford it; for most people it's simply not necessary, more trouble than it's worth and doing so would introduce even more hassles in life.

In thirty years of home ownership I've never felt the need to move out while doing even the most extensive building work and, thinking about it now, I can't think of a single family member or friend who has either.

Moving into an Airbnb is cheap and avoids all the hassle, mess and inconvenince, of living with the building work.

While introducing a whole load of other inconveniences and problems; if it works for you great but I think it's quite bizarre that you're touting this as some magic bullet. Do you run an AirBnB or sell landlord insurance for a living?

Key for me would be the being on-site for the builders. Even my most experienced and trusted builders are constantly checking this and that, and new problems often crop up you as soon as you take the first wall down - I just can't imagine not being there to answer questions and make decisions.

Utterlyconfused81

Boat_to_Bolivia said:

It would be interesting to know what happened in the end?
If they OP allowed access and the jobs were finally completed. 
Hopefully the OP will post an update soon.

In the meantime, back to the football!

Sorry, I had intended on updating this post far sooner, however the issues just kept on building and building and then with Xmas etc. things just got away from me.  Not to mention we just buried our heads in the sand for a few weeks to try and not focus on the absolute shambles that is this property and tenancy from hell. 

I saw the initial replies regarding allowing access and my partner was in agreement with those that said just allow access and get the work done so as to 1. get it over with and 2. enable to the LL to possibly meet the deadline set by the council.  

The LL was contacted by my partner saying that access would be provided only to be emailed on the morning the contractor was due to attend to advise that they would not be attending due to me threatening to call the police should the LL / their rep attempt access to the property.  I had stated this is an email after speaking to the local police who informed me that any such attempt would not be legal without consent and provided an incident number for us to cite should we feel threated the following day should someone try and force access.

Oddly enough though, the contractor felt safe enough to attend the property the following Thurs to part complete 1 job in blocking off the open fireplace, but not removing the old back boiler as instructed by the council.  This was a 20 min job of cutting some plasterboard and blocking it off.  

They were then suppose to replace the loft ladder as instructed by the council as the one fitted was not fit for purpose and incredibly unsafe.  Again, 20 minutes of messing about with it they advised it was not the correct size and they were going to go get a new one and would be back.  1 hour and 34 minutes later my partner got an email saying that the contractor would be back the following day once she had sourced a new ladder.  The following morning over half an hour after the contractor should have been here we got an email saying the contractor had had a family emergency and therefore would be unable to attend.  That contractor hasn't been back to the property since.  

It was very clear from the contractor whilst at the property they were not happy with the job and they openly expressed that opinion on multiple occasions.  I can only assume they got fed up of the back and forth with the LL looking to do the very minimum she could in order to keep the cost down, despite being advised by professionals as to what was required.  

The outstanding issues tasked by the council were not all completed on time, the council, in their wisdom, as the LL's rep had been emailing quotes etc. regularly (which mean absolutely nothing in reality) decided to extent the time limit by a further 30 days.  Upon challenging this the head of the department contacted me and was very apologetic.  They re-visited prior to Xmas and reviewed the work done and issued further instructions and reduced the time for work to be completed to be done by the middle of this month, despite the LL asking for until the end of Jan.  

As it stands none of these works have been completed.  Further leaks in the roof are evident given the damp plaster on the ceiling in 2 bedrooms, there is now damp on the walls at ceiling height in 2 of the 3 bedrooms and just earlier this week we had water actively dripping from the celling and cornicing, down the wall onto the floor. 

A roofer was sourced by the LL, who visited on Wednesday to quote, came Thurs to repair but spent less then an hour actually working due to the LL turning up and trying to man manage every aspect of the work they were trying to do (4 separate times).  The were sent off to collect a new ladder for the loft (not what they initially quoted for), they then had to go get replacement loft insulation as a lot of it was soaked through (she only allowed them to purchase and replace the absolute bare minimum).  She then started harassing them about whether they would fix the living door which sticks due to be fitted incorrectly and swelling due to the rising damp issues at the front door from faulty guttering which was only repaired 3 weeks ago despite being first reported in July. 

The contractors couldn't have been nicer to us, but by the end they looked like they just wanted to get away from the property and the LL.  They said in all the years they've done this they've never met anyone so difficult to deal with.  Matters are not helped by the LL's first language not being English, yet it's good when it suits her.  Ultimately it was all rather embarrassing as the contractor and LL ended up arguing outside the property for over half and hour as she was haggling over the price he quoted the day prior with regards to them not being here long enough.  They arrived at 0930 and left at 1500 and did maybe an hours work but that's due to her interference.  

So as it stands, someone else is coming tomorrow afternoon to repair the door and fit a new loft ladder.  Cant wait for this next installment of drama with our LL and a contractor.  

I also know for a fact that the contractor today has not rectified all the issues with leaks in the loft as they only worked on one single section.  I have worked on and off in construction both on the tools and in a project management capacity so have a good understanding of it.  

In the meantime, and I'll upload pictures tomorrow, our belongings stored in the loft, after only 6 months are absolutely rife with mold which we have never experienced in any other property where we have lived previously for a a number of years.  

Utterlyconfused81

Few pics as referenced in the previous post.

Forgot to mention that due to the unbelievable damp in the bathroom we've had to remove all bathroom items and store then in the upstairs hall due to damp and mold.  The pictures of mold on items were cleaned on Xmas eve and looked like that by new year.

GDB2222

Regardless of who is responsible, you need to take precautions over that mould issue yourself. It’s your health at stake. 

If it were me, I would open all the windows to get more ventilation. I would also source at least one dehumidifier. 

Unless there was some good reason to remove the back boiler, simply plasterboarding over it seems an acceptable solution. 

Can I ask why you don’t simply leave and find a better place?

Boat_to_Bolivia

My advice....Move!