Practical/affordable electric cars?

Martyn1981 · 5 December 2022 at 12:07PM

CoastingHatbox said:

Other estimates for BEV recycling are not at ~97% and there is a study that puts forward a best case scenario of 95% recycled, with the recycled material meeting 40% of the demand for new batteries.

In terms of battery life, again, there are factors that come into play - BEVs used for higher mileages with more frequent charge/discharge cycles are thought to see less degradation in battery capacity, relative to EVs used more seldomly. How the batteries are re-charged is also a factor.

The real problem with the studies, the assumptions, data points exposed and the interpretation there of, seems to be in most cases a lack of objectivity.

However, I don't want to divert this thread any further. My point has been made.

And personally, I'll do what I can to reduce my consumption of fossil fuels and batteries.

If your point was to post the most negative mileage claims that have since been discredited, then yes your point has been made. It's a genuine shame that some folk still use those 93k claims, or try to knock BEV's on the grounds of mining materials for their construction, when ICEV's require ongoing extraction of materials to keep their engines running. Plus of course BEV's aren't polluting city streets.

Not sure why you'd bring up battery life, again this is an old chestnut. In fact the recycling of batteries is slow, as so few batteries need recycling, as they last so long. Most negativity stems back to the early Nissan Leaf 24kWh batteries as they weren't very good, had poor temperature management, and due to their small size and low(ish) efficiency, means they work harder per mile than other larger batts. Batts now should outlast an average ICEV with 200k-300k expectations, and pushing 500k to 1m miles in the case of some Tesla's. And that's till they drop to around 80% or less range, and can then be repurposed for stationary storage.

Back to CO2, this is an old analysis, so of course grids are slowly greening:

Analysis: When do electric vehicles become cleaner than gasoline cars?

DETROIT, June 29 (Reuters) - You glide silently out of the Tesla (TSLA.O) showroom in your sleek new electric Model 3, satisfied you're looking great and doing your bit for the planet.

But keep going - you'll have to drive another 13,500 miles (21,725 km) before you're doing less harm to the environment than a gas-guzzling saloon.

The Tesla 3 scenario above was for driving in the United States, where 23% of electricity comes from coal-fired plants, with a 54 kilowatt-hour (kWh) battery and a cathode made of nickel, cobalt and aluminum, among other variables.

It was up against a gasoline-fueled Toyota Corolla weighing 2,955 pounds with a fuel efficiency of 33 miles per gallon. It was assumed both vehicles would travel 173,151 miles during their lifetimes.

But if the same Tesla was being driven in Norway, which generates almost all its electricity from renewable hydropower, the break-even point would come after just 8,400 miles.

Martyn1981 · 5 December 2022 at 12:18PM

Grumpy_chap said:

Thanks Jenni - I need to get a new car sometime next year and the MG4 is certainly on the list to look at. If it is more spacious inside, that is a bonus as I was considering something like a Mondeo. It is great that you answered my simple question with a simple answer - I did phone the local MG dealership and asked only for them to say they could not compare to anything else and I should go to look, but they didn't have one on show anyway

I'm all in a bit of confusion as to what I want. My heart says to go for an EV but my mind is struggling to make the financial maths work. I'd also like something with rather more "luxury" to it and it is a hard fight against something like this:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211272045084

Yep, totally get where you are coming from. Maybe have a test drive in the MG4, I know it's less luxurious than you've been thinking, but it's a great VFM entry point, and the ease and smoothness of a BEV is a luxury feature in itself. Then you have the different power delivery, due to instant torque, which again allows for more relaxed driving as it's a confidence boost for roundabouts, T junctions etc. [Not promoting lots of power, it's the power delivery, you know that the BEV will respond quickly and strongly, without needing to wait for revs to hit a narrow window.]

Also, looking at EV-database, doesn't the MG4 meet your particular needs, mentioned previously of having 150 miles of solid range in any conditions. The LR model is estimated to have 160 miles of range even in cold (-10C) motorway driving, so expect better than that.

BTW, the reason I'm suggesting the MG4, is that you're undecided, so rather than stress yourself over a more expensive BEV today, enjoy the BEVolution (as Herzlos suggests) and spend a few more years working out what the right BEV is for you.

PS Thanks again for finding that vid, glad I'm not going mad. M.

Grumpy_chap · 5 December 2022 at 12:50PM

Martyn1981 said:
Yep, totally get where you are coming from. Maybe have a test drive in the MG4, I know it's less luxurious than you've been thinking, but it's a great VFM entry point, and the ease and smoothness of a BEV is a luxury feature in itself. Then you have the different power delivery, due to instant torque, which again allows for more relaxed driving as it's a confidence boost for roundabouts, T junctions etc. [Not promoting lots of power, it's the power delivery, you know that the BEV will respond quickly and strongly, without needing to wait for revs to hit a narrow window.]

Also, looking at EV-database, doesn't the MG4 meet your particular needs, mentioned previously of having 150 miles of solid range in any conditions. The LR model is estimated to have 160 miles of range even in cold (-10C) motorway driving, so expect better than that.

BTW, the reason I'm suggesting the MG4, is that you're undecided, so rather than stress yourself over a more expensive BEV today, enjoy the BEVolution (as Herzlos suggests) and spend a few more years working out what the right BEV is for you.

PS Thanks again for finding that vid, glad I'm not going mad. M.

Yes, the MG4 - especially in Trophy trim - certainly ticks a great number of the boxes.

By default, I'd have gone for a Mondeo (or equivalent) but could live with a Focus (or equivalent). My priorities are safety, comfort and sufficient space for Mum in the back. That rules out some of the more random solutions I thought of (MX5).

I read Herzlos' response as saying to go for the Jag or equivalent.

I am concerned that I can't find a safety rating for the MG4 on the website.