How long should you run the heating for?

[Deleted User]

BikingBud said:

BUFF said:

kmb500 said:

BikingBud said:

12deg seems cold considering it is still very mild outside, how are you measuring this?

Are you aiming for 21 deg throughout the house or comfort? Are they the same thing?

Where is the thermostat and where are you spending most of the time?

What powers your heating?

Do all rooms have rads, what are the TRVs set at?

Having a rad adjacent to a stat with a TRV set high may shut off the heating before other rooms get chance to warm up,.

Where are the 2 that are not warm?

I am measuring it just by the honeywell thermostat. I assume the temp sensor for the thermostat dial is actually on the dial, not somewhere else.

I'm not aiming for any particular temperature as long as its comfortable. I just thought 21 degrees seemed like a reasonable room temperature.

Is 12 degrees cold given that it hasn't gone above 7 degrees today? I would have thought this is normal.

Heating is powered by a new-ish oil boiler that is working properly; we had a boiler service last week.

All rooms have radiators and the TRVs are set at max.

Depending upon manufacturer max. on a TRV is usually between 25 & 28C, it is not normal to actually aim to heat a room to that.
The setting on a TRV does not affect the speed at which the radiator heats up, just the temperature at which the valve closes.
Usually the only 1 that would be set to max. would be if it is in a room with a room 'stat.

Please could you explain the final part as it seems counter intuitive.

If the TRV is wide open then it will achieve a high temp in the room which will then cause the system to shut down, via room stat, before other rooms have got up to the required temp.

Whereas if the TRV is set lower only that rad will close down and allow the rest of the system to drive the other rooms up to the required TRV value and required comfort settings for those rooms. 

TRV wide open doesn't make the room heat up any faster - it just stops the radiator shutting off.

If you shut off the radiator near the stat, then you might end up shutting off all other radiators on TRVs and yet the stat never reaches temperature (until heat diffuses out of other rooms) and you drive the boiler straight through the bypass as a complete waste.

macman

OP, you need to contact the LL immediately and get the cold rads/seized TRV's fixed. Might have been an idea to ask the RGI who did the boiler service to have taken a quick look at them when he  was there?
At the very least, ask the LL if the loft is insulated, and if not, if he can do it ASAP? You can offer to lay it if he'll supply it, it's a simple half-day job once you have access (but I suspect he has filled the loft with his own junk if it's locked).
Otherwise I'm afraid that a single glazed bungalow with an EPC as dire as E is going to be very expensive to heat with oil CH and DHW,

BikingBud

Deleted_User said:

BikingBud said:

BUFF said:

kmb500 said:

BikingBud said:

12deg seems cold considering it is still very mild outside, how are you measuring this?

Are you aiming for 21 deg throughout the house or comfort? Are they the same thing?

Where is the thermostat and where are you spending most of the time?

What powers your heating?

Do all rooms have rads, what are the TRVs set at?

Having a rad adjacent to a stat with a TRV set high may shut off the heating before other rooms get chance to warm up,.

Where are the 2 that are not warm?

I am measuring it just by the honeywell thermostat. I assume the temp sensor for the thermostat dial is actually on the dial, not somewhere else.

I'm not aiming for any particular temperature as long as its comfortable. I just thought 21 degrees seemed like a reasonable room temperature.

Is 12 degrees cold given that it hasn't gone above 7 degrees today? I would have thought this is normal.

Heating is powered by a new-ish oil boiler that is working properly; we had a boiler service last week.

All rooms have radiators and the TRVs are set at max.

Depending upon manufacturer max. on a TRV is usually between 25 & 28C, it is not normal to actually aim to heat a room to that.
The setting on a TRV does not affect the speed at which the radiator heats up, just the temperature at which the valve closes.
Usually the only 1 that would be set to max. would be if it is in a room with a room 'stat.

Please could you explain the final part as it seems counter intuitive.

If the TRV is wide open then it will achieve a high temp in the room which will then cause the system to shut down, via room stat, before other rooms have got up to the required temp.

Whereas if the TRV is set lower only that rad will close down and allow the rest of the system to drive the other rooms up to the required TRV value and required comfort settings for those rooms. 

TRV wide open doesn't make the room heat up any faster - it just stops the radiator shutting off.

If you shut off the radiator near the stat, then you might end up shutting off all other radiators on TRVs and yet the stat never reaches temperature (until heat diffuses out of other rooms) and you drive the boiler straight through the bypass as a complete waste.

Never said anything about speed of heating. But keeping it wide open will allow the rad to achieve higher temp and shut system down via local stat. In your example the local target heat for the rad via TRV is 25-28c, it will never get to this if the room stat is set to 18c as the system will close down. Also other rooms especially those that have high heat loss will be affected by system shut down and will remain cold. Whereas setting the TRV to around 18c and possibly allowing the room stat to be slightly higher then the rooms will continue to get heat and consequently be more comfortable.

I would also suggest that if the system is not correctly balanced then the flow rate as determined by lockshield position will also have an impact.

Any system that shuts down other rads because one TRV closes one rad cannot be a well designed system.

Edit after further reading:

TRV wide open so no controlling effect but lockshield adjusted to reduce flow and ensure system is in balance, thereby allowing all other rads to close down via TRV and then finally system to close down as hall rad causes room stat to open.

[Deleted User]

BikingBud said:

Deleted_User said:

BikingBud said:

BUFF said:

kmb500 said:

BikingBud said:

12deg seems cold considering it is still very mild outside, how are you measuring this?

Are you aiming for 21 deg throughout the house or comfort? Are they the same thing?

Where is the thermostat and where are you spending most of the time?

What powers your heating?

Do all rooms have rads, what are the TRVs set at?

Having a rad adjacent to a stat with a TRV set high may shut off the heating before other rooms get chance to warm up,.

Where are the 2 that are not warm?

I am measuring it just by the honeywell thermostat. I assume the temp sensor for the thermostat dial is actually on the dial, not somewhere else.

I'm not aiming for any particular temperature as long as its comfortable. I just thought 21 degrees seemed like a reasonable room temperature.

Is 12 degrees cold given that it hasn't gone above 7 degrees today? I would have thought this is normal.

Heating is powered by a new-ish oil boiler that is working properly; we had a boiler service last week.

All rooms have radiators and the TRVs are set at max.

Depending upon manufacturer max. on a TRV is usually between 25 & 28C, it is not normal to actually aim to heat a room to that.
The setting on a TRV does not affect the speed at which the radiator heats up, just the temperature at which the valve closes.
Usually the only 1 that would be set to max. would be if it is in a room with a room 'stat.

Please could you explain the final part as it seems counter intuitive.

If the TRV is wide open then it will achieve a high temp in the room which will then cause the system to shut down, via room stat, before other rooms have got up to the required temp.

Whereas if the TRV is set lower only that rad will close down and allow the rest of the system to drive the other rooms up to the required TRV value and required comfort settings for those rooms. 

TRV wide open doesn't make the room heat up any faster - it just stops the radiator shutting off.

If you shut off the radiator near the stat, then you might end up shutting off all other radiators on TRVs and yet the stat never reaches temperature (until heat diffuses out of other rooms) and you drive the boiler straight through the bypass as a complete waste.

Any system that shuts down other rads because one TRV closes one rad cannot be a well designed system.

Yes, that's not what I said.

BikingBud said:

Deleted_User said:

BikingBud said:

BUFF said:

kmb500 said:

BikingBud said:

12deg seems cold considering it is still very mild outside, how are you measuring this?

Are you aiming for 21 deg throughout the house or comfort? Are they the same thing?

Where is the thermostat and where are you spending most of the time?

What powers your heating?

Do all rooms have rads, what are the TRVs set at?

Having a rad adjacent to a stat with a TRV set high may shut off the heating before other rooms get chance to warm up,.

Where are the 2 that are not warm?

I am measuring it just by the honeywell thermostat. I assume the temp sensor for the thermostat dial is actually on the dial, not somewhere else.

I'm not aiming for any particular temperature as long as its comfortable. I just thought 21 degrees seemed like a reasonable room temperature.

Is 12 degrees cold given that it hasn't gone above 7 degrees today? I would have thought this is normal.

Heating is powered by a new-ish oil boiler that is working properly; we had a boiler service last week.

All rooms have radiators and the TRVs are set at max.

Depending upon manufacturer max. on a TRV is usually between 25 & 28C, it is not normal to actually aim to heat a room to that.
The setting on a TRV does not affect the speed at which the radiator heats up, just the temperature at which the valve closes.
Usually the only 1 that would be set to max. would be if it is in a room with a room 'stat.

Please could you explain the final part as it seems counter intuitive.

If the TRV is wide open then it will achieve a high temp in the room which will then cause the system to shut down, via room stat, before other rooms have got up to the required temp.

Whereas if the TRV is set lower only that rad will close down and allow the rest of the system to drive the other rooms up to the required TRV value and required comfort settings for those rooms. 

TRV wide open doesn't make the room heat up any faster - it just stops the radiator shutting off.

If you shut off the radiator near the stat, then you might end up shutting off all other radiators on TRVs and yet the stat never reaches temperature (until heat diffuses out of other rooms) and you drive the boiler straight through the bypass as a complete waste.

TRV wide open so no controlling effect but lockshield adjusted to reduce flow and ensure system is in balance, thereby allowing all other rads to close down via TRV and then finally system to close down as hall rad causes room stat to open.

That's more like it - you want all the other rads to shut off on TRVs, so must keep the stat open for that time (as you rightly noted) but you need to make sure that the stat shuts off shortly after that time which having the local TRV set low could prevent.

BUFF

BikingBud said:

BUFF said:

kmb500 said:

BikingBud said:

12deg seems cold considering it is still very mild outside, how are you measuring this?

Are you aiming for 21 deg throughout the house or comfort? Are they the same thing?

Where is the thermostat and where are you spending most of the time?

What powers your heating?

Do all rooms have rads, what are the TRVs set at?

Having a rad adjacent to a stat with a TRV set high may shut off the heating before other rooms get chance to warm up,.

Where are the 2 that are not warm?

I am measuring it just by the honeywell thermostat. I assume the temp sensor for the thermostat dial is actually on the dial, not somewhere else.

I'm not aiming for any particular temperature as long as its comfortable. I just thought 21 degrees seemed like a reasonable room temperature.

Is 12 degrees cold given that it hasn't gone above 7 degrees today? I would have thought this is normal.

Heating is powered by a new-ish oil boiler that is working properly; we had a boiler service last week.

All rooms have radiators and the TRVs are set at max.

Depending upon manufacturer max. on a TRV is usually between 25 & 28C, it is not normal to actually aim to heat a room to that.
The setting on a TRV does not affect the speed at which the radiator heats up, just the temperature at which the valve closes.
Usually the only 1 that would be set to max. would be if it is in a room with a room 'stat.

Please could you explain the final part as it seems counter intuitive.

If the TRV is wide open then it will achieve a high temp in the room which will then cause the system to shut down, via room stat, before other rooms have got up to the required temp.

Whereas if the TRV is set lower only that rad will close down and allow the rest of the system to drive the other rooms up to the required TRV value and required comfort settings for those rooms. 

The primary system temp. control is the room 'stat. Conventional mechanical TRVs can't call for heat to start or stop the boiler firing but a room 'stat can (some eTRVs can with appropriate boiler communications).

 If you have a TRV in the same space as the room 'stat (& many won't) then if you have the TRV set lower than the room 'stat the room 'stat will never reach set point & shut the boiler down. The boiler will continue to fire or cycle & you will therefore end up burning gas & pumping hot water unnecessarily around the system many/all of which rads will have been closed off by their TRVs reaching their set points.
 If you have it the other way around with the TRV set higher than the room 'stat (& the convention is to set it to max to be sure of this) then when the room 'stat reaches set point it will shut the boiler down (until the room 'stat calls for the heat from the boiler again).

In an ideal house with an ideally designed, set up & balanced system all the radiators/rooms should heat at the same rate. That of course is rare in practice, e.g. in my house the room 'stat is in the coldest room in the house & I know that the when the room stat reaches set point the bedroom upstairs will be 2C hotter (unless the TRV in that room is set to have already shut off).

kmb500

macman said:

OP, you need to contact the LL immediately and get the cold rads/seized TRV's fixed. Might have been an idea to ask the RGI who did the boiler service to have taken a quick look at them when he  was there?
At the very least, ask the LL if the loft is insulated, and if not, if he can do it ASAP? You can offer to lay it if he'll supply it, it's a simple half-day job once you have access (but I suspect he has filled the loft with his own junk if it's locked).
Otherwise I'm afraid that a single glazed bungalow with an EPC as dire as E is going to be very expensive to heat with oil CH and DHW,

Thanks. Yeah I'm going to ask our letting agent if they can look into the insulation and fix the radiators. I wasn't here when the boiler company came to service it otherwise I would have asked them to look at the radiators.

This house is ridiculously cold. I just got home today and the house is 10 degrees, while its 6 degrees outside. When we got the heating oil a couple of months ago I had to take out a credit card to afford it and I can't afford to pay for any more so want this oil to last as long as possible.

I didn't realise when we moved in that it might be this cold and badly insulated. Think the easiest answer is to move house next year assuming bills will still be this much.

_Jem_

I lived in a place that was badly insulated, it was rented so not much we could do. The only room that was warm was the livingroom as above in the loft there had been some work done to stop the heating escaping. But all other rooms were freezing. The one thing i never knew is if were letting the home get too cold down to 15c by the time we got home from work, we never put the heating on for a hour while we were getting up early in the morning for work, maybe that would of helped a bit. 

InvertedVee

kmb500 said:

...Think the easiest answer is to move house next year assuming bills will still be this much.

  Sadly, I think you're right. Your home is leaking heat very quickly and it's going to be a major task to make it more affordable. People have suggested some good basic checks - bleed radiators, check TRVs etc. but there isn't much scope for you.

The landlord needs to get a grip on this quickly. The government has proposed changes to the Minimum Energy Efficiency Standards. In England and Wales all rental properties will need an EPC rating of ‘C’ or above by 2025 for new tenancies and for every existing tenancy by 2028. Landlords will face fines of up to £30,000 for not having a valid EPC. I can see a lot of below-standard properties being sold on in a hurry.

Meanwhile, you might have to just focus on keeping yourself warm. Good luck!

Swipe

It's going to be a very expensive couple of weeks for many. Turning very cold from Wednesday. I can't actually believe there are people on weather forums praying for cold weather. They must all still be living at home with their parents.

chris_n

Swipe said:

It's going to be a very expensive couple of weeks for many. Turning very cold from Wednesday. I can't actually believe there are people on weather forums praying for cold weather. They must all still be living at home with their parents.

I'm praying for cold and snow as I have no work without it! (But I'm in the mountains in Austria;-)