New boiler and Thermostatic radiator valves

Manxman_in_exile

Can anybody confirm for me whether the installation of a new boiler requires* the fitting of thermostatic radiator valves to the existing radiators?

We had a new boiler (gas, conventional) fitted a new months ago.  We've kept our existing radiators which had no thermostatic valves.  We were told that fitting thermostatic valves was NOT a requirement* when installing a new boiler.

(1)  Is this correct or not?  [edit:  it's since been suggested to me it is a "requirement"*]

(2)  And should we consider fitting thermostatic valves anyway?  (I'm not entirely certain of their pros and cons as we are not in the habit of leaving radiators turned on in rooms we aren't using.  Is their some particular benefit in radiators turning themselves on and off - which is what I presume thermostatic valves do - rather than controlling it yourself?)


*By "requires" and "requirement" I mean is it demanded by the relevant building regs, or some piece of relevant legislation etc etc?

FreeBear

Building Regulations Part L - Sections 5.20 to 5.22 recommend fitting of thermostatic controls in each room. This can be a discrete thermostat or a TRV on each radiator.

The recommendations contained within the Approved documents (often referred to as "Building Regulations") are usually taken as gospel and should be followed where practical. But in answer to your question, TRVs should have been fitted along with the new boiler in order to comply with Part L unless there is a thermostat in each room along with zone valves.

Ebe_Scrooge

Quite apart from any rules 'n' regulations, TRVs are a good idea.  I've never been a fan of, nor seen the need for, these so-called "smart" setups.  But a simple TRV is a purely mechanical device, pretty cheap to buy, and makes life so much easier.  At the simplest, in a conventional setup you've got a thermostat somewhere that control the overall temperature.  Then you just adjust the TRV in each room to suit your preference.  Maybe the living room is turned up full, the kitchen is on half, bathhroom on three-quarters, bedroom on a quarter, any unused rooms set to the lowest setting just to stop any damp.  Makes it very easy to adjust different rooms to different temperatures, depending on your lifestyle and preferences, for not much money.

Manxman_in_exile said:

Is their some particular benefit in radiators turning themselves on and off - which is what I presume thermostatic valves do - rather than controlling it yourself?

It just means you don't have to go round adjusting each rad as the temperature changes.  Set the TRV up, set it to a temperature you want in each room, and it'll look after the rest for you.  Let's say you like your bedroom to be warm but not too hot, for instance - find the setting that works for you (usually on a scale of 1-6), and it'll stay at that temperature.  Even if you have Granny round to visit and need to temporarily turn up the living room temperature to keep her warm, your bedroom will still stay at pretty much the temperature you set it at.  So it'll save money because you're trying to heat the whole house to the same level.

womble12345

Ebe_Scrooge said:

Quite apart from any rules 'n' regulations, TRVs are a good idea.  I've never been a fan of, nor seen the need for, these so-called "smart" setups.  But a simple TRV is a purely mechanical device, pretty cheap to buy, and makes life so much easier.  At the simplest, in a conventional setup you've got a thermostat somewhere that control the overall temperature.  Then you just adjust the TRV in each room to suit your preference.  Maybe the living room is turned up full, the kitchen is on half, bathhroom on three-quarters, bedroom on a quarter, any unused rooms set to the lowest setting just to stop any damp.  Makes it very easy to adjust different rooms to different temperatures, depending on your lifestyle and preferences, for not much money.

Manxman_in_exile said:

Is their some particular benefit in radiators turning themselves on and off - which is what I presume thermostatic valves do - rather than controlling it yourself?

It just means you don't have to go round adjusting each rad as the temperature changes.  Set the TRV up, set it to a temperature you want in each room, and it'll look after the rest for you.  Let's say you like your bedroom to be warm but not too hot, for instance - find the setting that works for you (usually on a scale of 1-6), and it'll stay at that temperature.  Even if you have Granny round to visit and need to temporarily turn up the living room temperature to keep her warm, your bedroom will still stay at pretty much the temperature you set it at.  So it'll save money because you're trying to heat the whole house to the same level.

I am tempted by getting 'smart' TRVs on all radiators to replace my current manual TRVs, my use case is I work from home, during the day I want to only heat the 1 room so I could set smart TRVs to be on 5 in my office and 1 in all other rooms between 9-5, the only other way to achieve this is to do it manually at 9am each day and then put it back to the different numbers in each room at 5pm. However smart TRVs are very expensive and it would take years to recoup the cost of the TRVs from the savings made on my gas bill.

Ebe_Scrooge

womble12345 said:

I am tempted by getting 'smart' TRVs on all radiators to replace my current manual TRVs, my use case is I work from home, during the day I want to only heat the 1 room so I could set smart TRVs to be on 5 in my office and 1 in all other rooms between 9-5, the only other way to achieve this is to do it manually at 9am each day and then put it back to the different numbers in each room at 5pm. However smart TRVs are very expensive and it would take years to recoup the cost of the TRVs from the savings made on my gas bill.

A person after my own heart!  Yep, it's always a toss-up between cost and convenience.  For me, unless something gives me a massive amount of time back in return for my hard-earned cash, I ain't interested.  Can't afford to be wasting money on frivolous things.  But your use-case scenario, I can appreciate, is one where it could be very convenient.  Can you justify the cost?  Only you can answer that one.

Where does one draw the line?  A good-quality vacuum-cleaner or automatic washing machine, for instance, would be a worthwhile investment - maybe even a necessity -  in most people's eyes. My grandparents never had such things.  Times and technology moves on .......

Norman_Castle

Manxman_in_exile said:

(2)  And should we consider fitting thermostatic valves anyway?  (I'm not entirely certain of their pros and cons as we are not in the habit of leaving radiators turned on in rooms we aren't using.  Is their some particular benefit in radiators turning themselves on and off - which is what I presume thermostatic valves do - rather than controlling it yourself?)

They avoid rooms being overheated by switching off at a set temperature.

BUFF

On a totally new install they are a requirement.
On a replacement install they are not (highly advisable though hence why they are a requirement for a new install).

Did you get a new programmer/room 'stat when you had the new boiler install?
A modern room 'stat is likely to do a far better job with a modern boiler than an old one & therefore save you gas consumption & hence money.

Manxman_in_exile

Thanks everybody.

BUFF said:

On a totally new install they are a requirement.
On a replacement install they are not (highly advisable though hence why they are a requirement for a new install)...

Yes.  I've since spoken to our local council's building control people and they've told me that they are required if new radiators have been installed, but not if the boiler has simply been replaced, (as in our case).

Ebe_Scrooge said:

Quite apart from any rules 'n' regulations, TRVs are a good idea. ... But a simple TRV is a purely mechanical device, pretty cheap to buy, and makes life so much easier.  At the simplest, in a conventional setup you've got a thermostat somewhere that control the overall temperature.  Then you just adjust the TRV in each room to suit your preference.  Maybe the living room is turned up full, the kitchen is on half, bathhroom on three-quarters, bedroom on a quarter, any unused rooms set to the lowest setting just to stop any damp.  Makes it very easy to adjust different rooms to different temperatures, depending on your lifestyle and preferences, for not much money.

Manxman_in_exile said:

Is their some particular benefit in radiators turning themselves on and off - which is what I presume thermostatic valves do - rather than controlling it yourself?

It just means you don't have to go round adjusting each rad as the temperature changes.  Set the TRV up, set it to a temperature you want in each room, and it'll look after the rest for you...

I understand that.  But how much of a benefit are TRVs over simply manually turning radiators on and off?  We are two people living in a house with ten radiators - can't we simply turn radiators on and off in the rooms we are using or not using?  I can see that TRVs are "convenient", but are they really a benefit worth paying for?

I also appreciate that TRVs may be a requirement on new builds, but I wonder if that's because there is a view that people these days don't have the common sense only to use the energy they need?  (Or are perhaps lazy?).  I don't waste electricity if I don't require it so I turn off anything I'm not using.  (I don't for instance ever leave anything on standby.  Everything is turned off if it's not bring used.)  If I don't want to waste gas by heating rooms we aren't using, manually turning a radiator off is not a great inconvenience to me, and having a TRV do it automatically doesn't seem like a significant benefit.  But maybe I'm looking at it entirely wrongly...

BUFF said:

...Did you get a new programmer/room 'stat when you had the new boiler install?
A modern room 'stat is likely to do a far better job with a modern boiler than an old one & therefore save you gas consumption & hence money.

Well yes - we got a new smart programable thermostat that independently controls heating and hot water.  But it's a single, central thermostat.  Should we have had (or do we need) a thermostat in each room?

Incidentally, the reason I framed my question the way I did (are TRVs required rather than are they advisable) is because I wanted to check if the advice we'd received had been correct.  It would seem that strictly speaking it was correct, although it may not have been entirely complete.

Thanks again!

Manxman_in_exile

Oh - just realised I've missed something from my previous that I may not be understanding fully.

Are we saying that without TRVs radiators only operate in a binary fashion?  ie they are either fully on or fully off with no in between?  And that if you aren't using a room that it is benficial/more efficient/cheaper to heat it continuously to a lower level than simply to turn the heating off in that room manually?

(Sorry - may sound like a stupid question but I'm not a "practical" person!).

Thanks again

FreeBear

Manxman_in_exile said: Are we saying that without TRVs radiators only operate in a binary fashion?  ie they are either fully on or fully off with no in between?  And that if you aren't using a room that it is benficial/more efficient/cheaper to heat it continuously to a lower level than simply to turn the heating off in that room manually?

The TRVs I have will slowly shut the flow down as the room temperature reaches the trigger point. So they are not a "hey, we have reached the target temp, Bang Turn Off" affair.

In terms of heating an unused room - It is beneficial (in my opinion) to have a little bit of heating just to prevent condensation forming. You also have to bear in mind internal walls are (generally) not insulated, so cold rooms will suck heat out of heated rooms through the walls/floors/ceilings.

twopenny

I've used both and now have TVRs.

I have had them on low for the day so they just keep it fine for when you're about your business.

Shortly it will take me less than 60secs to turn them all up a notch as it's blooming cold tonight  when I'm sitting as it will be in the morning. Once heated less than a minute to restore lower temps.

It still means that I can keep the bedroom cool and the living room warm and can reverse that in a trice in the morning.

The on or off approach just means that some are working to reach the temperature set on a central thermostat while the others produce no heat at all.

Wish I'd realised how easy they are to fit in my last place.