Landlords wants on leaving property

diddly74

Hello you lovely lot

Here I am back again seeking advice from those more experienced than myself.  You may remember my Landlord telephoned me back on 1 Oct and told me he wanted to sell the property we had been living in for the past 12.5 years as vacant possession, and I then went into overdrive thinking he had verbally given us notice, found a new house and we moved on 1 November.  Had to give him a months notice in writing, due to my misunderstanding, which means I am due to hand the keys back to him now at the end of November (28th).

He visited the property yesterday to see what work he needs to budget for in order to sell it.  He phoned me last night and was generally surprised and happy with the state he found the place, apparently there is a tear in the lino in the kitchen - if its the one I think it is its been there since we moved in and I had forgotten about it. He has asked that we wash the woodwork and radiators down with sugar soap so decorating is easier for him, and fill holes from pictures and shelves if we can - has decided that we do not need to paint any walls as he is going to redecorate anyway.  He has also asked for is us to "tidy the garden" (front and back) which he "believes" appear overgrown. I kept the gardens well, but the trees and bushes are large in the front especially - it cost us £600 last March (2021) to have them all cut right back - so I know its been done well within the past 2 years. And there is one place in the back garden that is a bit of a mess but this is where we put the wood from the fence when it collapsed in the summer winds and the landlord did not have fixed.  We both work fulltime, split shifts so rarely do we have much time together and in this weather I do not have the fortitude to do it.  I also do not have the cash to pay someone to do it which he said we should do.  Our £750 deposit is still in protection.

Are we unreasonable to say no to the garden work, which we don't feel is a necessity to do? He complained the plants are large - they were big when we moved in over a decade ago and plants grow.

My husband says no.  But I'm the one who has to tell the landlord.  Your advice is appreciated.  Incidentally the new house is working out ok, still feel very upside down as both my husband and I have been quite ill and off work in bed for one of the 4 weeks we've been here - lots of cardboard boxes still to be unpacked and disposed of.

Yours overwhelmed

D 

p.s. whats the deal on handing keys back - what do we do?  Not done this b4.

propertyrental

Usually best to stick to one thread ie add info to the original one. However

diddly74 said:

Hello you lovely lot

Here I am back again seeking advice from those more experienced than myself.  You may remember my Landlord telephoned me back on 1 Oct and told me he wanted to sell the property we had been living in for the past 12.5 years as vacant possession, and I then went into overdrive thinking he had verbally given us notice, found a new house and we moved on 1 November.  Had to give him a months notice in writing, due to my misunderstanding, which means I am due to hand the keys back to him now at the end of November (28th).
So very poor decisions, but water under the bridge now. You are committed.

He visited the property yesterday to see what work he needs to budget for in order to sell it.  He phoned me last night and was generally surprised and happy with the state he found the place, apparently there is a tear in the lino in the kitchen - if its the one I think it is its been there since we moved in and I had forgotten about it.
Is there a check-in inventory and /or photos and is the tear mentioned? Unless he can prove you caused the tear (ie check-in shows no tear) you can contest it.

 He has asked that we wash the woodwork and radiators down with sugar soap so decorating is easier for him, Not your responsibility to 'make things easier'! However if the woodwork etc is dirtier than when you moved in, that's different (though see below).

and fill holes from pictures and shelves if we can
If you made the holes, OK. If not you can choose to fill them out of your goodwill...

- has decided that we do not need to paint any walls as he is going to redecorate anyway. 
After 12 years, any painting required would be 'fair wear and tear' so not your responsibility, unless you damaged the paintwork. And even then, the concept of 'betterment' means he could not claim much for painting...

He has also asked for is us to "tidy the garden" (front and back) which he "believes" appear overgrown. I kept the gardens well, but the trees and bushes are large in the front especially - it cost us £600 last March (2021) to have them all cut right back - so I know its been done well within the past 2 years. And there is one place in the back garden that is a bit of a mess but this is where we put the wood from the fence when it collapsed in the summer winds and the landlord did not have fixed.  We both work fulltime, split shifts so rarely do we have much time together and in this weather I do not have the fortitude to do it.  I also do not have the cash to pay someone to do it which he said we should do.  Our £750 deposit is still in protection.
How does the garden compare with when you moved in? 
Does the check-in inventory describe the garden? Photos?
What exactly does the tenancy agreement say about garden care, if anything?
Did you report the collapsed fence? In writing?

Are we unreasonable to say no to the garden work, which we don't feel is a necessity to do? He complained the plants are large - they were big when we moved in over a decade ago and plants grow.
Yes. He cannot claim for 'normal' growth, provided it's tidy. If you let the garden/plants get out of control, that's different.

My husband says no.  But I'm the one who has to tell the landlord.  Your advice is appreciated.  Incidentally the new house is working out ok, still feel very upside down as both my husband and I have been quite ill and off work in bed for one of the 4 weeks we've been here - lots of cardboard boxes still to be unpacked and disposed of.

Yours overwhelmed

D 

p.s. whats the deal on handing keys back - what do we do?  Not done this b4.

See above in bold.
Your obligation is to return the property in a similar condition to when you moved in, less normal/fair wear and tear. After 12 years, significant wear and tear would be expected.
Any disagreement re deposit return will be resolved by the deposit scheme, and the LL would have to convince them his claims were fair ie you caused damaged/neglect over and above 'fair wear and tear'.

Keys - ask him what he wants done. If no instruction, had them back in person or through letter box at  the LL's address' for serving notices'.

diystarter7

Hi OP
I'm very reasonable, too reasonable our letting agent said once. This is the basis I work on - allow for fair wear and tet. Then expect the property back in the condition we left it minus fair wear and tear.

We have hedges, drives, paths and a conservatory. We expect the window sills to have no green mould on the outside as one place the side hardly has any sun on it and hedges, bushes, etc and the property to be left close to how we gave it to them.EG is spotless, smell, stain and tear-free. (we let the LA decide and happy with their conclusions but they said we were well withi our rights to have the wardrobe door repaired/replaced)

Years ago one of the sliding wardrobe door mirror was cracked at the top corner - we went with the letting agent and the T were honest that their 7-year-old accidentally pushed it too hard to the side. As they were honest and lived there for 3 years and nice people, we did not charge them as ther was no risk of the mirror, small corner falling out.  We let it out to new T's and pointed it out to them it was safe and the house was spotless again after we repainted etc, they were happy with that and still living there.

Therefore, look at it from both sides, damage etc would cost the LL money. Be reasoanble and put yourself in their shoes. If after that you feel they are being unfair, then rightly pull them up on it.

We always pay extra to get pics/write up etc, etc and as yet not encountered an unhappy T and hopefully never will

We allow for slight overgrowth but not neglect of buses etc or very infrequent cutting

PS: your next place - you take pics of everything as well the day you move in to yuor new place and send them to the LA/LL etc

Good luck

Gycraig

If you paid 650 to have it all cut back a year or so ago I wouldn’t be touching the garden he’s being ridiculous frankly. 

Filling holes you made is fair enough the garden no, do the radiators and the holes and say you won’t have time to do the garden. 

I wouldn’t be going back to a house I don’t live at to garden it 

diddly74

Thanks guys for your answers.
I have no problem in doing what he asks in the house, but do not have the time or money to manicure a garden other than ensure no rubbish is left and that it is tidy.  Your views are appreciated and help me lots.

diystarter7

diddly74 said:

Thanks guys for your answers.
I have no problem in doing what he asks in the house, but do not have the time or money to manicure a garden other than ensure no rubbish is left and that it is tidy.  Your views are appreciated and help me lots.

Thanks for updating
You sound like a lovely person/poster and a really good T.
Good luck in your new place.

[Deleted User]

Gardening can be hard work. He knows this and wants you to do the labour for free. Tell him you won't do it for free but will charge £100 an hour to tender the garden. He won't ask again.

Norman_Castle

Using sugar soap on paintwork and filling holes is part of decorating. After 12 years of taking rent from you he expects you to make his life easier by doing his decorating preparation. The woodwork needs to be as clean as it was when you moved in taking account of 12 years of wear and tear. Holes in the walls, presumably small nail holes for pictures? Literally a few minutes work, very easy to do before decorating. I understand the need to make good if the landlord isn't expecting to decorate but if decorating there is no need.

Bluebell1000

As a landlord, when our tenants made a tear in the lino we decided that it had an expected lifespan of 5 years, after researching lino life. If your lino has been there for 12+ years I would expect no deposit deductions for that, even if you don't have evidence it was there when you moved in.

SprostonGreenHead

Bit cheeky asking you do decorating prep for him. Cleaning the walls is one thing, but prepping them for paint is quite another. Sounds like he's trying to save himself some time / money at your expense. Given you're not actually living there now, this is extra cheeky imo.

As others have said, return the property to the state it was in when you took it on, less wear and tear, which over 12 years will account for a fair bit.

diystarter7

SprostonGreenHead said:

Bit cheeky asking you do decorating prep for him. Cleaning the walls is one thing, but prepping them for paint is quite another. Sounds like he's trying to save himself some time / money at your expense. Given you're not actually living there now, this is extra cheeky imo.

As others have said, return the property to the state it was in when you took it on, less wear and tear, which over 12 years will account for a fair bit.

In fairness to the LL, if any T has drilled holes into a wall to hang stuff etc, they must fill them in as it is not wear and tear.
Same goes fr the gardens, if they are handed over nice and trimmed, the LL should get it back like that.

Also, if the outside windows where the sun rarely shines in winter go green ie the frames and they were handed in a niice clean condiotin, same in return

The OP is a very reasonable T and I'm safely assuming they will have no issues.