Can I check if my Mother had her mental capacity checked by Solicitors when she made her will

JJWSJS8700

GrumpyDil said:

OP. 

I had a similar issue a few years ago. The solicitor took instructions for a new will over the phone from my sibling without ever seeing my mother. My mother's best friend who was a witness to the will contacted me as she was not sure my mother really understood what she was doing at the time of executing the will.

I was also able to prove my sibling lied when applying for probate and giving a statement about the execution which was asked for due to the weakness of the signature.

Because my sibling was somehow funded by legal cover it took about 4 years and 15000 in legal fees for me before we finally came to a settlement. 

In other words any challenge will be difficult and expensive even if you have decent evidence suggesting there are issues to investigate so hard though it may seem you will need to think carefully if you are thinking of going legal. 

Wow, I’d love to hear more.

Pennylane

AFAIK If the solicitor meets the person who wants their Will written or altered it is up to them to discuss this with them and ensure that they understand what they are saying and they always see them alone and away  from other family members so they are not influenced by anybody.  If there is any doubt that  they lack mental capacity to do this  then should not proceed.  

diystarter7

Pennylane said:

AFAIK If the solicitor meets the person who wants their Will written or altered it is up to them to discuss this with them and ensure that they understand what they are saying and they always see them alone and away  from other family members so they are not influenced by anybody.  If there is any doubt that  they lack mental capacity to do this  then should not proceed.  

easier said than done. It's not like the movies of the 1980's/90's from the USA where we saw wealthy people in films/tv dramas etc having their life-long own solicitors. These days, millions of people have no need for that and I guess at times become more acquainted with other family rather than the elderly client.

I'm not sue what the answer is other than to move on as there is clear lack of evidence of manipulation and even if there was some evidence, difficult to prove unless someone sticks their hands up.

OP - did your mum in recent times ever mention her will to you and if so what was said and who brought up the subject

billy2shots

taylordebs said:

diystarter7 said:

diystarter7 said:

OP
In order to support your quest, how did you get on with your mum?
How often did you see/call hers and vice-versa?

Did the will inc any other siblings you have or family from your dad's side?

Dis your mum ever mention the will to you and are the half-siblings a lot more financially vulnerable than you and you are relatively comfortable financially when compared with them?

What has stepdad said I'm assuming you have spoken with him

TBH, I'm very much anti-will turning but if there is a case and evidence of manipulation then it needs to be addressed.

I wish you luck in getting a clear picture re your mother's state of mind when the will was written and the reason/s why you was left out.

No one has mentioned this but it is important PS: Almost all medical conditions vary person by person and there are early stages of dementia where ones ability has been hardly impacted. The person may not be a 100% of they were the year/s before but are capable of making an informed decision. There, it will be very difficult to prove you mother lacked capacity unless there is a record of her health stating that for around that time. With dementia, even a bit later people have good and bad days but early dementia from the people I've seen via work years ago were able to go out alone, stay at home alone etc,etc

Your choice and good luck and I hope you get the info you seek to rest your concerns one way or another

Hi OP

If/when you come back and either confirm if you have seen the will, I will then post a few more thoughts on this.
Good luck.

Hi yes Mum told me that she had written her and seemed upset to tell me that I wasn't in it. Stepdad died 2 days before Mum. I was extremely close to my Mum and saw her and spoke regularly but stepdad didn't like me and I understand that he would want to protect his new children...no step children involved. I feel she might have been pushed Into making the will. All of us half siblings are adults with houses and families of our own. Thoughts very welcome thanks

It seems pretty black and white to me. 

Your mum made a decision and even voiced it to you. 

The time to object was then and there. 



My parents are 67, they have around £2m in cash and assets. 
Last month they formally told me I wouldn't  be receiving anything. 

We are closer than any family I know, see each other 2/3 times a week. Worked together for over 20 years until they retired. Holiday together etc etc. 

My sister is estranged having lived a very different life. She has caused so much physical and emotional pain to my parents that they always said she would inherit nothing. 
I was always told 50% to me, 50% to my sister's 4 children. 

That has now changed to everything (£2m) split equally 6 ways between my 2 children and my sister's 4. 

It's their money (well I helped create their financial position with them through the business) they can make their choice. 
If I have issue, now is the time for me to say something not after they pass away. 

diystarter7

diystarter7 said:

Pennylane said:

AFAIK If the solicitor meets the person who wants their Will written or altered it is up to them to discuss this with them and ensure that they understand what they are saying and they always see them alone and away  from other family members so they are not influenced by anybody.  If there is any doubt that  they lack mental capacity to do this  then should not proceed.  

easier said than done. It's not like the movies of the 1980's/90's from the USA where we saw wealthy people in films/tv dramas etc having their life-long own solicitors. These days, millions of people have no need for that and I guess at times become more acquainted with other family rather than the elderly client.

I'm not sue what the answer is other than to move on as there is clear lack of evidence of manipulation and even if there was some evidence, difficult to prove unless someone sticks their hands up.

OP - did your mum in recent times ever mention her will to you and if so what was said and who brought up the subject

OP, please ignore my post. The highlighted bit, I missed that your mum had "voiced" decison to you.

So please move on as it's her choice.

BooJewels

I've been following this thread and my impression is that it is the step father who exerted the influence (if there was any), not the three half siblings who are now set to inherit.   If the couple were together long enough to have children with subsequent grandchildren together - it's not really surprising that they wrote mirror wills.  And it's unfortunate that the mother didn't live long enough after her husband to maybe have chance to re-think for herself - although if losing capacity, might not have been fit at that time to do so.

Perhaps what should have happened originally, if the solicitor was aware of the situation and Mum's wishes, was that the will be written in a way that if Mum outlived the stepfather, her estate would be divided slightly differently.  A good solicitor would ask these questions and consider what if scenarios to make sure different eventualities are covered.  The solicitor should also have seen the couple separately and not allowed the husband to influence Mum's own wishes.  As I knew I would probably outlive my husband, we already addressed those matters when we wrote our wills and the solicitor also gave us each the option to go through it together or separately.

My own thought is that it's perhaps too late to do anything about it now, especially as Mum already told you about it, so was seemingly aware of what she was doing.  I think for your own peace of mind you need to find a way in your heart to accept that.

user1977

JJWSJS8700 said:

user1977 said:

If the solicitor met her then I wouldn't expect they would have proceeded if they had doubts about her capacity (at any point during the process - generally they'd be in contact with the client both when taking initial instructions and when it comes to signing the Will). Beyond that, they don't need to have checked her capacity - so the onus would be on you to prove that in fact she didn't have capacity to make a Will.

And bear in mind these things aren't binary - you can e.g. forget what day it is today, but still be certain about who you want to inherit your estate.

Solicitor is classed as qualified to assess mental capacity and is supposed to.

Yes, but if it seems at all marginal I would expect them to defer to somebody better-qualified. So if they didn't, that would suggest there was no obvious cause for concern.

user1977

JJWSJS8700 said:

Do you know, when a will is being made does the solicitor verify what the testators assets actually are or do they believe anything the testator says they own?

It wouldn't be normal for the solicitor to verify anything, unless the client asked for that sort of advice. Of course often the solicitor will know e.g. what property the testator owns, or that they've inherited somebody else's estate. Though the latter is the sort of reason why testators need to predict their estate possibly being vastly different by the time they die.

taylordebs

BooJewels said:

I've been following this thread and my impression is that it is the step father who exerted the influence (if there was any), not the three half siblings who are now set to inherit.   If the couple were together long enough to have children with subsequent grandchildren together - it's not really surprising that they wrote mirror wills.  And it's unfortunate that the mother didn't live long enough after her husband to maybe have chance to re-think for herself - although if losing capacity, might not have been fit at that time to do so.

Perhaps what should have happened originally, if the solicitor was aware of the situation and Mum's wishes, was that the will be written in a way that if Mum outlived the stepfather, her estate would be divided slightly differently.  A good solicitor would ask these questions and consider what if scenarios to make sure different eventualities are covered.  The solicitor should also have seen the couple separately and not allowed the husband to influence Mum's own wishes.  As I knew I would probably outlive my husband, we already addressed those matters when we wrote our wills and the solicitor also gave us each the option to go through it together or separately.

My own thought is that it's perhaps too late to do anything about it now, especially as Mum already told you about it, so was seemingly aware of what she was doing.  I think for your own peace of mind you need to find a way in your heart to accept that.

Absolutely and that is what i needed to hear thanks.. I just assumed she was talking about wills made 40 years ago lol...was shocked to see it was so recent and that is when she told me sadly about it and seemed upset its only when I recent saw will that the penny dropped but yes I must let it go ..thanks again

GhibliFan

I feel so sad for you and your Mum, sounds like the husband manipulated the situation to benefit his children when your Mum was vulnerable.  At least you know your mum was upset by the situation, it must have been so painful for her to tell you,  but she didn't want you to get a nasty surprise.  My condolences on the loss of your Mum.