Plumber Invoice

2a1d

We've just had an invoice through from our usual plumber and it was over what we had expected it to be.

The issues:
The toilet was blocked
The mixer tap in the kitchen was leaking. We asked for it to be looked at and fixed.

What happened:
Our plumber said someone would be round the next day to look into it. This was delayed a further 4 days as each day the person who was coming round had transportation issues. (Not a major issue, we had another toilet which worked fine). The plumber sent an emergency drainage team instead to look at it on the 5th day.
This was all sorted and we received a copy of the invoice from them for a fixed price of £120 (inclusive of VAT).

The plumber sent someone else round to look at the tap. They had come prepared to install a new tap rather than fix the existing one as we had expected.

The Invoice:
For drainage we were charged £190 + VAT by our plumber. This included the £120 and then costs to arrange for it to be fixed.
The tap was £250 + VAT with labour being £80 + VAT.

The query:
Our plumber had not made it clear at any point that he was charging for his time to organise this or that he wasn't a drainage specialist. We would have preferred he said he wasn't a specialist and gave a recommendation of someone who could help, this certainly would have saved us his "organising" fee. In addition, it feels wrong that we were charged more for "organising" and ending up with a potentially more expensive emergency team because his regular choice had let him down on multiple days.
Also, charging VAT on top of a price which included VAT doesn't sit right, but I've seen others call it more of a mark up.

The tap was purchased without our agreement, there was no choice or checking of a budget. Their opinion was that it was just easier to fit a new tap (which is a make and style he trusts) rather than try to fix the current one (Which is fine, but probably should be the choice of the customer?). We could even have purchased the tap ourselves to save on cost and the charge for them picking it up had we agreed on that tap. I've found the same tap for £180.

We're just unsure how much of this is our plumber being wrong or if he's just playing the system/this is how it works and we just have to lump it and learn from it.

DanDare999

2a1d said:

We've just had an invoice through from our usual plumber and it was over what we had expected it to be.

The issues:
The toilet was blocked
The mixer tap in the kitchen was leaking. We asked for it to be looked at and fixed.

What happened:
Our plumber said someone would be round the next day to look into it. This was delayed a further 4 days as each day the person who was coming round had transportation issues. (Not a major issue, we had another toilet which worked fine). The plumber sent an emergency drainage team instead to look at it on the 5th day.
This was all sorted and we received a copy of the invoice from them for a fixed price of £120 (inclusive of VAT).

The plumber sent someone else round to look at the tap. They had come prepared to install a new tap rather than fix the existing one as we had expected.

The Invoice:
For drainage we were charged £190 + VAT by our plumber. This included the £120 and then costs to arrange for it to be fixed.
The tap was £250 + VAT with labour being £80 + VAT.

The query:
Our plumber had not made it clear at any point that he was charging for his time to organise this or that he wasn't a drainage specialist. We would have preferred he said he wasn't a specialist and gave a recommendation of someone who could help, this certainly would have saved us his "organising" fee. In addition, it feels wrong that we were charged more for "organising" and ending up with a potentially more expensive emergency team because his regular choice had let him down on multiple days.
Also, charging VAT on top of a price which included VAT doesn't sit right, but I've seen others call it more of a mark up.

The tap was purchased without our agreement, there was no choice or checking of a budget. Their opinion was that it was just easier to fit a new tap (which is a make and style he trusts) rather than try to fix the current one (Which is fine, but probably should be the choice of the customer?). We could even have purchased the tap ourselves to save on cost and the charge for them picking it up had we agreed on that tap. I've found the same tap for £180.

We're just unsure how much of this is our plumber being wrong or if he's just playing the system/this is how it works and we just have to lump it and learn from it.

You clearly expect them to work for free, arranging a drainage specialist and collecting parts is something you should expect to be billed for. However this should have been communicated to you.   

SaverRate

Can you post a photo of the kitchen tap installed including the brand? £250 seems alot for a tap to be honest but depends on the make 

pinkshoes

I would not be happy with this.

You requested a plumber to come round and fix a blocked toilet (usually fixed using drain rods??) and fix a leaking tap.

Instead you had 4 days of no shows, then instead of coming themselves to fix the blocked toilet them sent an emergency drainage team which you had to pay for.

I mean, if you wanted to call an emergency drainage team, you could have done this yourselves straight away! It wasn't an emergency as you had another toilet - you could have bought your own set of drain rods for that price.

As for the tap, you asked for it to be fixed, not replaced, so if they were unable to repair (usually just a washer replacement job) then you should have been told this and given the option to have it replaced.

Did they replace the tap and then tell you afterwards?

I would be expressing this in writing to the plumber before paying to see what they have to say. I'd want to know in writing why you're paying for an emergency that wasn't an emergency, and for a replacement tap when you wanted the other one fixed.

lincroft1710

pinkshoes said:

As for the tap, you asked for it to be fixed, not replaced, so if they were unable to repair (usually just a washer replacement job) then you should have been told this and given the option to have it replaced.

Did they replace the tap and then tell you afterwards?

I would be expressing this in writing to the plumber before paying to see what they have to say. I'd want to know in writing why you're paying for an emergency that wasn't an emergency, and for a replacement tap when you wanted the other one fixed.

Most kitchen taps these days have cartridges which are the parts that tend to fail and are far more expensive to replace than washers.  On 2 occasions I have opted for a new tap rather than replacement cartridges.

lincroft1710

SaverRate said:

Can you post a photo of the kitchen tap installed including the brand? £250 seems alot for a tap to be honest but depends on the make 

You can pay a lot, lot more than £250 for a kitchen tap

2a1d

Thanks for the responses

DanDare999 said:

You clearly expect them to work for free, arranging a drainage specialist and collecting parts is something you should expect to be billed for. However this should have been communicated to you.   

I have no problem being billed for that, my issue as stated was not being given the choice to arrange and collect parts myself, rather than paying inflated prices. Had my plumber been clear that he doesn't specialise in drainage, we could have found our own (or his recommended) at a price in the region of £120.

SaverRate said:

Can you post a photo of the kitchen tap installed including the brand? £250 seems alot for a tap to be honest but depends on the make   

It's the Franke Olympus Mono Mixer Kitchen Tap Chrome. Available on Screwfix for £180.

pinkshoes said:

Did they replace the tap and then tell you afterwards? I would be expressing this in writing to the plumber before paying to see what they have to say. I'd want to know in writing why you're paying for an emergency that wasn't an emergency, and for a replacement tap when you wanted the other one fixed.   

That's a pretty good summary of the situation. The plumber just turned up and said replacing it was a better long term option. There was no mention at that point of the cost of the top, but to be fair my wife did not ask either. We've already shared out disappointment at the invoice, with replies along the lines of "I have been a plumbing and heating engineer 18 years now, I have installed less quality kitchen taps in the past and payed the price myself and my customers I went ahead and choose you a suitable replacement that will last you a long time" and "Unfortunately it’s easy to say you could have booked a drain engineer and gone and got the tap yourself to save money, we could all do that with everyday life… but your paying for my trusted years of experience and that comes at a cost". We don't deny that paying for his time would cost, but we weren't given the choice so we are expected to pay for what he feels is the best option, not what best suits us.

pinkshoes

2a1d said:

That's a pretty good summary of the situation. The plumber just turned up and said replacing it was a better long term option. There was no mention at that point of the cost of the top, but to be fair my wife did not ask either. We've already shared out disappointment at the invoice, with replies along the lines of "I have been a plumbing and heating engineer 18 years now, I have installed less quality kitchen taps in the past and payed the price myself and my customers I went ahead and choose you a suitable replacement that will last you a long time" and "Unfortunately it’s easy to say you could have booked a drain engineer and gone and got the tap yourself to save money, we could all do that with everyday life… but your paying for my trusted years of experience and that comes at a cost". We don't deny that paying for his time would cost, but we weren't given the choice so we are expected to pay for what he feels is the best option, not what best suits us.

OK so fair enough replacing the tap if they were unable to fix it (did they actually say they couldn't fix it??), but you should have been told how much it would be, as a quick google search would tell you the price and it would be much cheaper for you to drive to screwfix and pick one up yourself.  The £250 + VAT for the price of a tap which costs £180 is not very fair given they probably got a trade discount too! I'd be asking for the receipt for the tap.

As for the toilet, what did the emergency person actually do to sort it? Drain rod job? or was it more complicated? 

Tucosalamanca

Client supplies part, tradesperson installs.

Problem not resolved, or reoccurs, or an unrelated fault develops.

Tradesperson blames part, client's supplier blames poor installation.

Client wanted to save a few quid but now has no support (goodwill) and an unresolved problem.

Even if supplier is good and replaces the part, what happens then? Client will have to pay for disassembly/installation a second time. Can you imagine how these conversations go with customers?

This is why trades will only supply and fit, the business model fails otherwise.

Yes, the parts are charged at a premium, but when something goes wrong, the client can expect full back up from their tradesperson. It is the trade's responsibility.

The cost over retail price goes towards the tradesperson's own costs, for when things don't go right.
They're basically self-insuring for the days when they do get recall visits (disassembling products, liaising with suppliers, reinstalling, replacing consumable items and so on).

DanDare999

pinkshoes said:

2a1d said:

That's a pretty good summary of the situation. The plumber just turned up and said replacing it was a better long term option. There was no mention at that point of the cost of the top, but to be fair my wife did not ask either. We've already shared out disappointment at the invoice, with replies along the lines of "I have been a plumbing and heating engineer 18 years now, I have installed less quality kitchen taps in the past and payed the price myself and my customers I went ahead and choose you a suitable replacement that will last you a long time" and "Unfortunately it’s easy to say you could have booked a drain engineer and gone and got the tap yourself to save money, we could all do that with everyday life… but your paying for my trusted years of experience and that comes at a cost". We don't deny that paying for his time would cost, but we weren't given the choice so we are expected to pay for what he feels is the best option, not what best suits us.

OK so fair enough replacing the tap if they were unable to fix it (did they actually say they couldn't fix it??), but you should have been told how much it would be, as a quick google search would tell you the price and it would be much cheaper for you to drive to screwfix and pick one up yourself.  The £250 + VAT for the price of a tap which costs £180 is not very fair given they probably got a trade discount too! I'd be asking for the receipt for the tap.

As for the toilet, what did the emergency person actually do to sort it? Drain rod job? or was it more complicated? 

That would be from the plumber £250 + vat. 

2a1d

pinkshoes said:

OK so fair enough replacing the tap if they were unable to fix it (did they actually say they couldn't fix it??), but you should have been told how much it would be, as a quick google search would tell you the price and it would be much cheaper for you to drive to screwfix and pick one up yourself.  The £250 + VAT for the price of a tap which costs £180 is not very fair given they probably got a trade discount too! I'd be asking for the receipt for the tap.

As for the toilet, what did the emergency person actually do to sort it? Drain rod job? or was it more complicated? 

No, they didn't look at whether it could be fixed. We told them the tap was leaky and they turned up with the new tap ready to install (after my wife shared a picture of current tap, which she assumed was just an understanding of the current one we use not as an idea on which one to buy to replace).

Just a drain rod job, yes.



I'm getting the feeling it's just an expensive lesson to make sure the tradesman is completely clear in future, even if it feels like the plumber should have been the ones asking rather than making assumptions on our behalf.

I get Tucosalamanca's points and completely understand it from that point of view.

Although annoyed about the money side of it, it's more about not giving us the choice, with both the contacting of the emergency drainage company and the whether we'd want to try to fix the tap first, or even a choice of which tap we'd like.
The ability to choose was taken away, but in the end the job was done and he's charged for it. I'm not sure what more I can argue when they've been defensive of the way they've dealt with it so far.