Economy 7 not working properly

philip63

I have two storage heaters that should work on E7, I decided to turn one on this Friday 19/11/22 the first time this winter, next morning the heater had not heated properly. Suspecting that it might be a faulty heater, the next night I put on the other one as well, and they both came on at 10-30 pm the normal time. and went off at 0030 am

The normal 7 hour period is from 22-30 - 0030  Then 0330 - 0830 I woke at 6am and checked the heaters both not on. I checked the meter and it hadn't switched to the E7 night rate? I have the old style two rate meter, which works with a radio signal. It appears to me that, the meter received the signal from 22-30 until 00-30 but not from 0330-0830 I know that the power suppliers can alter the times to suit demand.

I'm wondering if any one else has experienced the same problem recently, and think that the heaters are faulty, when they are not, check the time clock, to see if it's switching over when it should. As  my company keep emailing me about changing to a smart meter, I'm wondering if the power suppliers are doing this deliberately, then say the meter is faulty, and needs to be updated to a smart meter? My E7 was working ok, up until the time that I first turned on a storage heater, as I check the meter when using the washing machine and dryer, in the early morning just the day before. I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has experienced this recently.

[Deleted User]

As  my company keep emailing me about changing to a smart meter, I'm wondering if the power suppliers are doing this deliberately, then say the meter is faulty, and needs to be updated to a smart meter?

Wow - that is a Machiavellian proposition. Applying Occam’s Razor, I would suspect a timer switch fault.

From the March 2022 Ofgem guidance to suppliers on RTS:

‘Radio Tele Switch

Currently the technology which operates the Radio Tele Switch meters (RTS) is scheduled to be switched off in March 2023. We are aware many suppliers already have a suitable meter in place for these customers, however we are also aware of some wider issues. We fully expect all of industry to be proactively working towards solutions to any potential barriers so that consumers are not left exposed to any potential detriment.

Energy suppliers are obligated to ensure all customers have appropriate metering arrangements in place and suppliers should be working hard to ensure all customers with traditional RTS meters are offered a smart meter prior to the switch off. ‘

The above is the most likely reason why your supplier is asking you to accept a smart meter.

[Deleted User]

"I have all these complicated electromechanical devices in my cupboard, some of which are very old and part of an obsolete scheme that is already breaking down.  Something has gone wrong, but I will assume that all of the devices are working perfectly and actually it is some sort of nefarious scheme by a man in the shadows."

OP - surely the most likely answer is just that something has gone wrong?  Has this happened just once, or does this happen every night (I suspect from your answer it has happened twice in a row)?

EssexHebridean

Do the heaters have the option for timed programming? If so, double check that hasn’t been activated somehow maybe? 

macman

E7 is normally a straight 7 hours, usually between 00.30 -7.30am, but determined by the DNO. I don't know of any that have a start as early as 10.30pm, then with a 2 hour re-switch back to peak-rate at 00.30am?
I thought RTS switching was a simple on/off signal 7 hours apart, which does not change, even with the seasonal clock adjustment for BST/GMT?

stewie_griffin

A few years ago I had a Heatwise meter controlled by the rts signal so it’s certainly capable of doing more than 7 hours in a row.

QrizB

OP was reporting last year that his teleswitch wasn't always switching reliably, although he seemed to think this was a feature not a bug:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78650727/#Comment_78650727
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78652350/#Comment_78652350
It sounds to me like it's time for a smart meter.

[Deleted User]

macman said:

E7 is normally a straight 7 hours, usually between 00.30 -7.30am, but determined by the DNO. I don't know of any that have a start as early as 10.30pm, then with a 2 hour re-switch back to peak-rate at 00.30am?
I thought RTS switching was a simple on/off signal 7 hours apart, which does not change, even with the seasonal clock adjustment for BST/GMT?

There are several "split-period" E7 areas.  There can be any number of periods of off-peak time, usually between 22:30 and 08:00 GMT - but iirc the actual rule is "between 8pm and 8am".

macman

Thanks, I didn't know that. Hard to grasp the logic behind it though, surely demand doesn't  drop at 10.30pm and then increase again at 00.30am  for 2 hours?
Cheap rate kicking in at 10.30pm for two hours means it's too late for most people to take advantage of it for an evening boost?

Gerry1

macman said:

E7 is normally a straight 7 hours, usually between 00.30 -7.30am, but determined by the DNO. I don't know of any that have a start as early as 10.30pm, then with a 2 hour re-switch back to peak-rate at 00.30am?

Nope.  10:30pm GMT - 12:30am and 2:30am - 7:30am is the RTS default in the South East.  Can be quite useful even without storage heaters because you may be able to 'double dip' at the beginning and end of the day.

macman said:
I thought RTS switching was a simple on/off signal 7 hours apart, which does not change, even with the seasonal clock adjustment for BST/GMT?

Nope.  That would risk giving people permanent night rate if the signal couldn't be decoded reliably, e.g. if there was local electrical interference, screening (e.g. new steel framed buildings locally), transmitter or aerial failure, or even screening by a dodgy consumer.

For most people the RTS behaves just like a rotary timeswitch except that its time is kept in sync accurately by the LW signal.  The times can be varied by ± 15 minutes, but this seldom applies to domestic customers.  In the summer it's 11:30pm - 1:30am and 3:30am - 8:30am; this is so that consumers don't need to reprogramme any local timeswitches to avoid being charged an hour at day rate.